Conflict!!!!

F

ffonsok

Active member
oh my god. I am being torn in two.

I am still trying to deceide what camcorder to get, after reading thousands of posts, tons of reviews, and checking tons of webstores.

I mostly film action sports at this time (Downhill biking/Freeride, Wakeboarding, Snowboarding, etc), but I also want to start making shorts, music videos and so on.

I recognize that SD is slowly dying out, and HD is taking over.
However, I do not have the money for a full size HD camcorder, such as the A1.
I have tried the Canon HV10, and hated the audio quality.

So now I am debating between the DVX100B and the DVC30, as many people before me have done.

I don't want to buy a DVX, which many believe to be "old" technology, and then have it be COMPLETELY outdated in a year.

Although the DVC is similar technology, it is smaller and cheaper. For this reason, I would not have as much of a problem if it was outdated in a few years.

What camera would you point me towards? I recognize that this is a biased forum because it is all DVX users, but try to use your best judgement.

I was planning on buying the DVX today, but when I went and asked my dad for a $600 loan, he about sh*t his pants.

Also, does the DVX have a night shot mode as the DVC does? How well does this work? Does it slow the shutter down to get a clear picture, or is it still full 30 FPS.

Hope you guys can answer my questions
peace
nathan
 
Q1: do you own a video camera of any sort at the moment?
Q2: If so, what?
Q3: how much experience do you have, shooting broadcast quality footage?
Q4: What is your overall budget. remember you will need tripod,mics,and light's

if 1= NO,
if 3 and 4 = NOT A LOT.
then stop giving yourself a headache, and buy any camera and LEARN how to use it.

a good cameraman can do more with a single chip miniDV, than a bad cameraman can do with DigiBeta

ian
 
I've been filming using a single chip DV, and I have maxed out at getting the best footage.
I've won film contests with my sony one chip, and even filmed an entire 40 minute sports film that I sold around 100 copies of for $10 each.

I know how to use a DVX, we have them at school, but I wouldn't say that I am the best at using it. I still have some learning to do on it.

I have no budget, what I want is the best camera that fits me.

edit- I dont have my sony anymore. It broke, and costco was kind enough to honor my return.
 
I've been in the broadcast industry for 20 years, using betacam sp,sx and xdcam
i've played with sony vx2000, pd100,pd150,trv950
and recently got given an HVX200
The Hvx is fantastic, and if your budget can stretch then get one.
what ever you buy will probably need replacing in about 3 years, so don't get too bogged down in what is thee highest spec camera at the moment.
just get a good 3ccd miniDV, or DVcam (if that's all you can afford)
try to play with as many camera's as possible and go for one that feels nice in your hand.

i bought a nikon D-slr about a year ago, everyone told me to buy the canon.
i had it in my head that i wanted the canon. but i've been shooting stills for 23 years
and when i got the canon in my hand, i hated where the buttons were, and how it felt. the Nikon just felt right.

ian
 
sooooo are you pushing me towards the DVC30 or DVX?
I would get the HVX, I love it, but budget cant reach that far :(
 
i've never used either so i'm not going to push you towards either.

go with your instinct, then learn the craft and upgrade accordingly.

the camera is only half the battle, you will need a good tripod, mics and lights.

ian
 
dont get either, save up another 1000 and get the Canon A1. you will not be sorry.
 
The DVX will not be outdated anymore than any other camera will in the next year. RED is on its way. HD cameras will still be around though, and if you can get a DVX now, do it. Are you aware of the Andromeda modification for the DVX? It is basically the poor man's HD. Do a search for it on these forums. DVX with Andromeda is capable of quality that exceeds the HVX, believe it or not.

Get a DVX now, it seems you can afford it; and if you really want HD, make some money with your DVX and get the $2300-2500 Andromeda mod. Check out www.reel-stream.com and go to the gallery.
 
Why dont you look into a Used DVX100a, or something? they are still awesome cameras. and just cheaper.
 
kyle.presley said:
The DVX will not be outdated anymore than any other camera will in the next year. RED is on its way. HD cameras will still be around though, and if you can get a DVX now, do it. Are you aware of the Andromeda modification for the DVX? It is basically the poor man's HD. Do a search for it on these forums. DVX with Andromeda is capable of quality that exceeds the HVX, believe it or not.

Get a DVX now, it seems you can afford it; and if you really want HD, make some money with your DVX and get the $2300-2500 Andromeda mod. Check out www.reel-stream.com and go to the gallery.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you might want to inform him about the additional costs of the Andromeda system. I.E Mac mini and accessories to actually take advantage of it. For that price, if he's already worried about buying a DVX, he'd might as well invest in something that does HD out of the box. The Andromeda system is definitely NOT the poor man's HD. It costs just as much as a system/camera that shoots hi-def to tape (HDV). Aka the A1. For the price of a used DVX and the Andromeda... you could get an A1 + Firestore and be tapeless... might even be able to find a USED HVX.


The DVX might not be outdated, but that does not mean it's not an economically viable choice to save just a bit more to reach for the next level of product. Especially if you aren't in need of something right this very second. In the long run, it ends up being a benefit to the content creator.
 
Well, yeah. But he cannot afford an A1. He said it is between the dvx and a dvc30. The DVX is obviously the better choice. *AND* he wants HD. If ffonsok wants HD down the road he could spend less than $3000 additional dollars and have picture quality comparable to the Varicam, which costs 10x that much used. The A1 comes nowhere near that in terms of straight up quality or price.
 
kyle.presley said:
Well, yeah. But he cannot afford an A1. He said it is between the dvx and a dvc30. The DVX is obviously the better choice. *AND* he wants HD. If ffonsok wants HD down the road he could spend less than $3000 additional dollars and have picture quality comparable to the Varicam, which costs 10x that much used. The A1 comes nowhere near that in terms of straight up quality or price.
Click to expand...

How is he going to afford Andromeda if he can't afford an A1? And how is the DVX OBVIOUSLY the better choice? The logic does not equate here. If that's your opinion, that's fine. I'm sure you'd do what you wanted to with your hard-earned. But, the obvious choice sounds like fact and that's definitely NOT a fact.

If he spends 2500 now for a DVX100b, and then 4k for the Andromeda and Mac Mini and everything he needs to get running, then he's already purchased an HVX with an 8Gig card, something that is DEFINITELY on par with Varicam footage, without the need to be constantly tethered. That's all down to preference, yet the former does not sound like a smooth business plan by any means. If you haven't a need to even buy a camera right now, why would you not save and get the best you can the first time out?

DVX vs DVC30: Sure, the DVX would be my choice. It's still not fact that it is the obvious; this all weighs on his needs and wants in a camera.
 
Don't be fooled by all the hype, the trends, the ifs and buts. Before choosing a camera, SD or HD, the age old key question of: What are you going to do with it? Still holds true! The camera is just a tool. Don't use a hammer if you need a screwdriver. The best question you should ask yourself is: Who's your target audience for the video's you are going to produce, and how will they view your masterpieces.

HD is great! But it's not the be all and end all for the average joe. If you have professional contracts that demand HD, then that's a good starting point. If you do sports, recitals, documentaries on your local cable community tv, and other events for your average spectators, then SD is all that you need.

If you think you'll need to post your stuff on the web, then having the progressive option is almost considered "mandatory". If you want to do short or medium length films, having 24p is almost considered "mandatory".

Having said that, your budget and your activities will dictate your buying decision. In my case, I can tell you that HD is not in my sights for now. Sure it's a nice to have, but all my clients have no HD playability devices, so why invest? I work in a local cable tv station, and the day we broadcast HD is the day probably the day when Etheopia will broadcast in HD (if you catch my drift). I own a DVX100B, I shot a lot of events, corporate videos, and films with it. They all turned out great! My only concern quality-wize for me is to get away from the DV codec. In my case, I'm eyeing the HVX200 for it's DVCPro50 broadcast quality capabilities, and DVCProHD for keying (then down converting to SD).

Consider carefully if you need progressive and 24p. If you do, the DVX100B is your best bet. If you can live with 60i, then the DVC30 is a good choice. As for HD, remember there is a big difference between NEED and WANT!
 
Kholi said:
Sorry, but you might want to inform him about the additional costs of the Andromeda system. I.E Mac mini and accessories to actually take advantage of it. For that price, if he's already worried about buying a DVX, he'd might as well invest in something that does HD out of the box. The Andromeda system is definitely NOT the poor man's HD. It costs just as much as a system/camera that shoots hi-def to tape (HDV). Aka the A1. For the price of a used DVX and the Andromeda... you could get an A1 + Firestore and be tapeless... might even be able to find a USED HVX.


The DVX might not be outdated, but that does not mean it's not an economically viable choice to save just a bit more to reach for the next level of product. Especially if you aren't in need of something right this very second. In the long run, it ends up being a benefit to the content creator.
Click to expand...

He said to buy the DVX and "make some money" with it. Thats what Im doing. Im buying the DVX and then in about a year, Im going to send in for the andromeda upgrade. Id much rather have uncompressed 720, than a 4:2:2 1080i image.

just my 2 cents
 
AllAroundFilmLV said:
He said to buy the DVX and "make some money" with it. Thats what Im doing. Im buying the DVX and then in about a year, Im going to send in for the andromeda upgrade. Id much rather have uncompressed 720, than a 4:2:2 1080i image.

just my 2 cents
Click to expand...

You do know how much more money you will make telling someone that you can also master their product in HD, future-proofing it at the same time. It's a good load of BS... but it's money-making.

If the industry shift is to Hi-Def... and you plan on competing, you either adapt or perish. I didn't make the rule, but it's common sense.

Now, if you're interested in purchasing an Andromeda system in conjunction with the purchase of a DVX, then go for it. It's all preference, all opinion and I am in no way discouraging anyone from that. My point was that he should inform himself on options, further learning about the drawbacks to certain systems and the potential head and heartaches that come with them.

Like you want Andromeda because you want uncompressed 720 instead of 4:2:2... you've educated yourself so you know what you want. This should be no different. That was my point.
 
well, you guys kinda got me off track.... but thanks for all the input:dankk2:

i deceided on the DVX100B, and I'm buying it today
 
i deceided on the DVX100B, and I'm buying it today
Click to expand...

You have chosen wisely.

knight.jpg
 
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