Confessions: Why the AG-AF?

Rolf Silber

Rolf Silber

Veteran
Okay. Let's just try and see if we find something out if we approach "it" from a different angle and do not kick the very people who try to illuminate us: Why have we (not) pre-ordered the AG-AF and what do we hope to get? And will we be getting it?

I hope the AG-AF will give me the possibility to shoot background and additional material for TV-movies I myself or my company produces. Either I do shoot such material myself or a member of my team may take it when we need a 2nd camera and/or collect material outside principal shooting. So we need a camera that is not too complex handling wise and will work together with other cine-equipment.

What we need from this machine is material that can be introduced into a professional surrounding and work flow and hold the ground. This to a lower cost because we may not be able to afford a "grown up" cam to do that job as a "go between". And at the same time I am a bit tired to run around with a DSLR and miss a lot of what we need for our work flow.

I hope the AG-AF, being rather small and light and versatile as it is, may give me personally the possibility to shoot at random things I have asked myself a lot of time if they are "shootable". My experience in the business is that at times DoP's may hesitate (understandably) to do some things because they feel they are getting into the fringe of professionalism and may get hammered for it. I want to find out for myself what may be possible and what not.

Above that I need a sketch book I can take with me in certain situations and just.... shoot. And still collect material I may introduce into a "real" movie. Establishing shots etc...

We will use the camera probably for web-based "social media" content we produce in the low-budget segment. We will use the camera for small stunts with some actor/writer friends, where we may want to shoot little "layout" movies that have to look somewhat professional and that can - economically, aesthetically and technically - go either down- or upmarket.

We know it's not a RED or an ALEXA. And we know it's coming in December and we will really use it from mid-February and have to become acquainted with it till then. And it costs about 5K and this is a risk we will take.

Other reasons? Other fields of work? What are your reasons, your projects, your hopes?
 
I have a pair of HVXs for my standard video work.
For commercials and music videos I use a 35mm adapter or am forced to rent 5D/7D at client's request.
35mm adapters are cumbersome to use.
I'm not fond of the 5D/7D.
Af-100 should fit my needs perfectly until Scarlet S35 comes along. (and will most likely help me afford it)
 
I just finished shooting a full length feature with an Arri D21 and a RED one (Also 5DII and 7D in there). The feature cost about $1 mil US and bankrupted me until it paid for itself and started paying me back.

My next major project has a $6 mil budget but that project will only be shot in 2012. It has investors and is very exciting but it is still a whole year away...

After paying 2 years worth of personal Bills, I have some cash left to do my next self funded feature.
So I'm buying my own rig and shooting two full length features with kids from my nephews school and some funny characters i met at my local Gym.

I promised myself that I would not put my family through the strain of an investor dependent movie again (the 2012 project will be upfront capital) so I have negotiated a $50k budget with my wife for my 2011 projects and will be shooting both movies with that modest budget to hone my technical skills.

The Af100 is perfect for the Job and i'll be able to train school kids to camera assist without stressing about expensive lenses - m4/3 lenses are easy to replace!
I also ordered just about everything Cinecity has on stock for DSLR's heh heh... I had the local hardware store guy balance and machine everything for me nicely. ;)

Also ordered a GH2.. hoping I can have that before Christmas.

The Af100 is perfect for me. Zero risk other than the (really low price) $5k for a Camera that can deliver images for the big screen... My next step up will probably be an Alexa (I much preferred working with the Arri D21 to the RED).

For an independent, low budget/high production value camera, the Af100 is unbeatable. But I think the proof is in the pudding so i'll stop yapping here.
 
I started my business by accident, by launching a modest website a decade ago to help me pay model's fees and pay for expensive cameras and lighting kit (my speciality is photographs of beautiful women). I was lucky enough to hit a niche and within a few years I quit my day job (which was as a particle physicist, of all things) to run my website full time. I'm still the only person working on it full time, but I have a couple of people working with me part time and a few more who come in on the crew and production side regularly (as well as all the models, of course).

We've always tried very hard to punch above our weight in delivering as professional and glossy a product as we can, despite the lack of anything approaching a big budget and a pretty fierce production schedule. From the early days our motto was "Every shot good enough for the cover of Vogue". Of course, we rarely attain that, but that's our mission statement, if you like.

It is relatively easy for a small outfit to compete with the biggest ones in terms of still photo quality. The biggest shooting unit in the world is probably only a dozen people- photographer, a few assistants, makeup, stylist, model, someone to help with the lighting, maybe an art director. We've ridden the wave of digital camera technology- early adoption was one of the ways in which we punched above our weight. So we've used a series of Canon dSLR's from d30, d60, 10D, 5D, 5D2 and 7D. We're now shooting with medium format digital (Hasselblad H3DII) and really nice studio flash lighting from Hensel. These are top pro-level bits of kit priced around the same as a small car, which is at the extreme end of our budget reach but which we really know we can get the best out of and will pay us back in quality and thence hopefully, eventually, in terms of sales. Plus when you are shooting two thousand meters above sea level in the Alps or above the arctic circle in Norway, you want to make the very best of it and make the best photos you possibly can, for one's own artistic vision, for posterity and just plain pride in your work.

It is much more difficult for a small outfit to compete with the biggest ones in terms of moving picture quality. The biggest shooting unit in the world for movies is hundreds of people- probably even thousands when you add up all the people employed directly or indirectly. For movie photography, the top pro kit doesn't cost the same a small car. It costs the same as a mansion. So in every way, one has a much bigger and harder job producing moving images that can stand any sort of comparison to what people are used to seeing in the cinema or on music videos (which are the two media where beautiful women are made to look the most stunning and gorgeous).

"Every film good enough to win an Oscar" should probably be our mission statement for our moving picture efforts- but that would be laughable, let's face it. Most of us have come from a stills background, and although we've been teaching ourselves film making as best we can over the six or so years we've been shooting, we're operating on too small a scale and are too low on the learning curve for us to even pretend that we're aiming at that. "Good enough for a period drama on the BBC" might be a bit more attainable, but still very aspirational. Frankly, "good enough for a broadcast soap opera churning out an episode a day" would likely be a step up.

But let's go with "Every film good enough for a period drama on the BBC" or even the more modest "Videos that look even a tenth as good as our stills". To be shot by no more than four or five people total, cast and crew together. (I'm usually the director, producer, lighting cameraman, sound engineer, digital tech, editor, sound editor and distributor for my movies. Ulp.) And with a weekly production schedule.

It is a tall order. We need every damn cheat in the book to steal every bit of apparent production value from our shots.

We started six years ago with cheapo Panasonic DV bottom of the range consumer camcorders. Two of them, so we could have two angles of the scene to cut between. On cheap stills tripods. That taught us a bit.

We graduated to DVX100's. This was a massive step up- not because the camcorders were crappy, but because they didn't allow you to do any of the things we know lends apparent production value to the footage, like progressive scan, 24/25 fps, or even manual controls

Then we graduated to HVX200's (which we love and still use). Ergonomically they are great, feature wise they are great. They are still our go-to cameras in any sort of tricky situation or where there are so few of us present on set that everyone has to be both cast AND crew at the same time.

When we bought the Hasselblad, we also got a 5D2 as a backup. We assumed the video feature was a gimmick. Then we saw Reverie. The shots of girl in the satin dress under the street lights blew us away, because that's exactly the sort of thing we shoot for stills.

So we tried shooting video on the 5D2 and thought 1) bloody hell, this is hard work. Crappy ergonomics. and... 2) Bloody Hell. The girls look STUNNING.

I've tried all manner of retunes and fiddles with the HVX's plus Colorista II and magic bullet looks and have managed to get something approximating the great skin tones and general gorgeousness of the 5D2 footage from the HVX's but you are always fighting the small sensor. There's a big dilemma every time we shoot. The HVXs will be professional, reliable, easy to operate and generally a pleasure to shoot with. But the footage will require heavy treatment and we're going to need to shoot at the very edge of the camera's capability to get the shots we want. Alternatively, we can shoot on the Canons (we added a 7D for slowmo and coverage). The footage out of the camera will sing. But the shoot will be slow, painful, awkward, annoying... the 7D will inevitably overheat at the very worst moment, the 5D2 will shut itself off just as you've nearly finished composing the shot and you'll need to wait while the monitor reboots to acquire the signal, you have to exclude anything that might strobe or moire from the shots so no stockings or tights for the girls! So the Canons are HORRIBLY restrictive on what we can shoot, and horrible to shoot with, but deliver an apparent production value significantly higher than that from the HVXs.


What do we want from the AF100? Something that delivers 90% of the "wow factor" of the Canon footage, with none of the bloody aggravation!

If we really needed to, we could probably stretch to the new Sony, or even a Red One if I can persuade my bank manager to stump up. But operating on the scale we do, I am not sure that that is the best point to invest the extra £10,000+ pounds. I'm thinking an AF100 will solve most of our production issues, whilst delivering footage in the same ballpark of gorgeousness as the Canons, and the money would be better invested in locations, cast, crew, a follow focus unit, possibly a slider, some way of running our tripod's dolly unit smoothly over rough ground, and so on.

So I'm hoping for the best bang for the buck and sweet operating ergonomics with image quality that we will be able to take some pride in, the way we take pride in the quality of our stills.

Cheers, Hywel Phillips

(P.S. repost somewhat edited to comply with forum guidelines. Apologies for violating those guidelines, and thank you to the moderator who very politely and constructively PM'd me to let me know.)
 
My field of work is primarily short & long form documentary and news. The material is used on the web and on broadcast on HD channels. Additionally, I work for a number of small independent producers who create work for a wide gamut of clients. Most of my work is done with the EX-1 and 5D but more and more clients are requesting the 5D these days. We all know the drawbacks with DSLR's so I wont even mention them. I come from a still photography background and my constant goal when filming news doc's is to try and bring quality cinematic visuals into a industry plagued with spastic shaky footage where everything is in focus. When I travel overseas to work, the EX1 is always my first choice if I could only have one camera, the focal length range and servo zoom have saved many a shot. I do supplement a number of shots with the 5D when the right conditions exist. With that I feel that the pluses the AF100 brings to the table out way losing the servo and focal range. I have 7 Nikkor and Zeiss lenses from my still days that I now use with the 5D, most of them prime's so I'm covered in range. Not that I want to buy more lenses but to protect myself in dynamic situations, I could see the Olympus 14-35 and 35-100 covering me in nearly all circumstances. I only wish they had OIS built in for when I have to go hand held.

A few of the shows I work for look at XDCAMEX as the minimum bar for majority of content, so we'll see how this codec is received. Im not stressing it to much because as many people here have reminded us all; content is king, not codec. There's always the KiPro mini and Nano if push comes to shove.

I've pre-ordered the AF100 but will be keeping a close eye on the Sony. The option for a servo zoom when the need arises is very attractive to me.
 
Large sensor and interchangeable lens capability in a DEDICATED VIDEO CAMERA at an affordable price.

I shoot docs, mocs and do narrative work--primarily with a 7D as of late--and can't wait to get my AF100. No more annoying workarounds and artifacts.

Please pardon my brevity (compared to the other posts), but I believe there is great power in words, if you don't hitch too many of them together.
 
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EX3 resolution + cinema sized sensor + panasonic mojo

coming from an hmc150, this is a very good upgrade. perfect price point for me.
 
Geez...haven't been to confession in ages -- I'm buying the AF100 out of my personal funds for use where I work. Why? Because we don't have the budget for it (even though it's an insanely great price) and I'm really, really tired of all the hassles associated with DSLRs.

We started out using a D90 because that killed 2 birds with one cam; allowing us to get good stills and also step up to HD from a VX-2000. The photo group was satisfied (great stills), but it was a less than desirable compromise for me (video...not so good). Then the GH1 came along and I bought one for myself and also recommended it for work since I spec out all the video equipment. Of course, I couldn't resist doing 2 camera shoots so I ended up using my personal GH1 at work.

I've since hacked my personal cam, but decided to leave the other one alone even though I had permission to hack it. Now I've pre-ordered a GH2 and an AF100. Both of these are out of personal funds. My GH2 is for personal use and I would have been fine with just that because I really can't justify an AF100 for personal stuff alone. But, as I said, the hassles involved with using DSLRs were a bit much since our video department consists of me, and me, and me. And running a 2 camera shoot using DSLRs when you're also doing the directing, lighting and sound can get just a tad stressful. Not to even mention all the extra steps required in post.

My GH2 will undoubtedly get used for work, along with the AF100. And the GH1 and my GH13. So I'll have 4 cameras for multi-cam shooting. I'm thinking I probably need to start training some of the other members of our group in how to use this stuff. :)

And finally, speaking of training, it's hard for me to believe that just over a year ago I didn't know squat about ISO, aperture, interchangeable lenses, etc. And now I feel pretty comfortable with all of it. Still have a tremendous amount to learn, but dvxuser has been and hopefully will continue to be the cornerstone in my ongoing education. And Barry's upcoming training materials on the AF100 can't come soon enough!!

Just want to sincerely thank everyone here who selflessly contributes to this priceless knowledge base. And especially to the mods for getting a handle on the rudeness that was quickly making this forum a very unpleasant place to visit. I think you did a good job of walking the sometimes fine line between possibly stifling spirited discussion and eliminating personal attacks and general incivility. Looks like things have finally settled down and I once again look forward to coming here. I only hope the same can be said of the many talented professionals who generously share their expertise with us.
 
I started in video kind of sideways. As a worship/tech pastor for a new startup church in 2004, we had projection and powerpoint for doing stuff in weekend services. Being the "tech" guy around and pretty good with computers/software, i just picked up on one thing after another. We ran "movie clips" in services as examples of things, illustrations and such, and I was the one who had to figure out how to show clips DVD movies.

After much success with videos in service, we decided it was time to start making our own. I worked with a buddy of mine as he had access to a DV cam and had Premiere Pro like 1.0 or whatever it was at the time. We made one short with many people's stories that was really rough... But everyone loved it! From there, we decided to make more progress: move to Mac's for better display software in service, picked up a 3CCD panasonic handycam with widescreen capability. So we were still just kind of fiddling around.

Then we made the big jump. We wanted to start recording services and making more and better videos. So I scoured the web for info, and found this place with tons and tons of information on videography and cameras. After having learned alot here, we invested in Final Cut Studio, a DVX100b, a nice Rode shotgun mic, and a Vinten Vision 3 tripod. And from there we spent the next 3 or so years filming news/announcements, shorts, services, baptisms, you name it. That DVX has been all over the US, dropped, banged up and used and abused. We always treated it well but you know how it goes. I still feel bad, I don't know how long we had it before I found out that I should have a UV filter on the front... Kids and their toys. We upgraded with a Firestore along the way for recording services straight to MOV which helped immensely with turnaround times for services.

Fast forward to now, we just made a major upgrade to multicam switching for our services. Also made the jump to HD and picked up a couple HPX170s with fantastic picture quality, especially in the service environment. Switching HDSDI with the Panasonic HS50 and recording to a Mac Pro straight to ProRes is a joy. We picked up a Kessler KC-Lite crane which we are currently using with the old DVX100b... :D

How does the AF100 fit into this picture? Well, we need a couple more cams with HDSDI output for recording in the service environment. AF100 has this. We are planning on recording the worship music portion of our services and AF100's have such a great low light range for this. We would love to start shooting some more "artistic" pieces and HPX's just don't have the DoF that takes you to that level.

Plan is to pic up two AF100's to finish off the HD service switching. With this, we have 2 HPX170s for green screen/run-and-gun/ENG/CCD only work. And 2 AF100s for artsy/interviews/filmic/stories work that we are starting to move towards. DVX100b as the backup cam, and able to go film elsewhere while services are going on.

I LOVE what panasonic has done with there camera line, and they are bringing amazing video/film quality to the everyday man. Thanks Panasonic for helping us change peoples lives week in and week out! I'm not sure where we would be without the Panny stuff. Stuck somewhere in Sony/Canon HDV hell I suppose :D
 
JesterJJZ said:
I have a pair of HVXs for my standard video work.
For commercials and music videos I use a 35mm adapter or am forced to rent 5D/7D at client's request.
35mm adapters are cumbersome to use.
I'm not fond of the 5D/7D.
Af-100 should fit my needs perfectly until Scarlet S35 comes along. (and will most likely help me afford it)
Click to expand...

+1....love my HVX, will probably still use it for a number of corporate jobs...but the AF100 seems like a logical step up for my creative work....my 35mm adapter is starting to drive me nuts.
 
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