Computer Power needed to edit and color grade FS700 2k and 4k RAW?

A

ashclever

Well-known member
Hey guys, I currently have an HP Z400 workstation that has done me well for this past couple of years editing AVCHD and .mov files. It has Xeon W3550 3.07GHz, 14BG RAM, Nvidia Quadro 2000 card, and I am an Adobe user. I would like to stay in the PC world and keep using Adobe products. Here is a link to what I am thinking about getting or get someone to make me a computer with these specs. Would it be solid for Editing and Color Grading 2k and 4k RAW? I do pretty minimal VFX. Only feathered masks between a few layers of video in AfterEffects here an there. I am also interested in moving learning Resolve for my grading.

HP Z820
http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTE...yID=x.IQ7habXDwAAAFCulgtkXzC&JumpTo=OfferList

Or do I need to get a system with 8 or 12 cores? My current 2 and half year old Z400 is already a quad-core but I am assuming these newer processors are that much better?

Thanks! Trying to figure out the whole battle plan for moving into my Odyssey 7Q purchase in the next couple of months. Still plan on using mostly the 1080p 10bit 422 popular compressed codec but would like to be able to handle what else it offers.

______________________________
www. RoughCutProductions.com
 
Have you thought of building your own instead of buying pre-built branded ones? That way, you'd have more options. But I do understand that some people don't have the know-hows of building a PC. I'm a PC user too and use an i7 Processor with 32 GB of RAM, and it runs/renders Adobe Software projects smoothly....and its a 4 year old system. The only thing that I have upgraded in those 4 years are the 3 SSDs and a new Nvidia "gaming card". Anyway, that's just me, I'm sure that HP system works well too.
 
Just my .02 worth....but,
if you're really interested in working 4K, I don't see how you can afford to not include a Thunderbolt port in your hardware. This HP you specced doesn't have it...a serious shortcoming!
 
the two real working 4K systems that i have used that one can both edit and can grade in are confg'd similarly
z820 / dual 8cores / dual K5000's / 96gig ram / very fast storage

Quantel Pablo;
http://www.quantel.com/page.php?u=5f855b42334dfa55ce0fdafa6c9dc127

SGO Mystika;
http://www.sgo.es/mistika/

Neither are low cost solutions, but both work in 4K all day long, really there's no other option unless you are willing to give up something, then there's loads of options all with a cost, mostly roundtripping between software or crap color tools

Pablo PA is likely the most cost effective entry into 4K but still 20K+ once running
 
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Well..........I most definitely don't have $20k to sink into a computer right now. lol. I assumed most FS700 users don't either or they would be using at least F5's. Your computer sounds insanely amazing and I am drooling thinking about it but not in the budget for me this year I'm afraid. I am totally open to having someone build me a computer. I do know a guy locally who does it for a living but as he is not a video editor, I wanted to check here to get some specs together for him of what I need. Then I can feel out his knowledge about it better and he can give me more accurate quote. Plus, editors are the ones who really find out what works and doesn't. I hear ya on the Thunderbolt, I am not opposed to getting that as a part the computer setup as well.

Now my understanding of the HP workstations latest models is that they can handle 4k editing. I watched an Adobe video where a guy was grading his footage and watching it back in real time off of one of their new laptops. I know there is a huge difference between 4k RAW and 4K compressed that the Odyssey will offer. The footage he was editing was RED R3D files so I don't know how much more efficient the compression of RED's files vs the FS700 with 7Q's still to be released 4k compressed will be? I worded the title of this thread wrong now looking back at it in regards to 4k raw, sorry about that. lol

Number one codec I want to be editing is the soon to be released 1080p 10bit 422 "popular codec". I want to have the ability to edit some 2K Raw, for instance the 240pfs continuous would be nice to edit here and there. The 4K compressed would really be extremely rare and I currently have no desire to touch 4K RAW.

So is something with the specs of the Z820 with an added Thunderbolt a reasonable direction to be aiming for or am I still just barely cutting the mustard and will have headaches. Sorry for the ignorance, I've edited the hell out of h.264 codecs this last 6 or 7 years but haven't even gotten to work with Prores, so I just want be prepared for what I am getting into. Thanks for the input guys!
 
yea, both Mystika and Pablo are in the 100K range once up and running.. but look at the spec's they share... loads more CPU and RAM than you are thinking of, and for a good reason... this is what it takes to really run 4K, not demo it in 2014

the Pablo config guide offers solid advice on building a machine for Pablo2K that will translate into any system that runs 4K;

When building a Pablo Rio 2K system it is important to choose the correct hardware components to achieve the level of performance needed.

Consideration needs to be given to the other interface cards that may be required such as 10Gb network interface card for NAS connection, a FC HBA for SAN connection, a SAS RAID card for an external storage array or a RED Rocket card. The detailed choices made will impact the number of slots required on the PC motherboard and determine the suitability of specific products.


The PCIe interface allows cards to be used in slots that may not achieve the cards full potential performance. For example a PCIe x8 RAID controller will work in a x4 motherboard slot. Limiting throughput in this way may impact on the overall system performance with high resolutions and high frame rates. The best plan is to avoid such compromises entirely.

Pablo Rio 2K is designed to use modern PC components to their maximum capabilities. This requires adequate power supplies and generates heat. When specifying a PC system on which to run Pablo Rio 2K consideration needs to be given to the rated capacity of the PC power supply - don’t forget to allow for any add-in boards if you are using them.


It’s vital to provide adequate case cooling in addition to the CPU fans. The cooling should be designed to ensure that module temperatures are stable and within specification during long periods of the PC running at maximum utilisation.
Click to expand...
 
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If you're interested in 4K compressed, ala O7Q, with prores HQ422, you're perfectly capable with any of the new Lenovo or HP laptops, and they incorporate Thunderbolt in the Lenovo w5xx series. Your existing computer should work fine for that, as well. You could upgrade your existing system with an SSD boot drive and an Nvidia Quadro k4000 video card and you'll be pretty good to go for quite a while, saving yourself a TON of $$$ to invest in more SSD drives. The new Samsung Terabyte SSD is a real screamer for editting HD or 4k compressed.
 
I edited 4K XAVC Sony F55 footage seamlessly using Premiere. My rig is Haswell 3.2 gHz i7 4770, 32 gb RAM, Nvidia 760 GTX (CUDA Hack installed for Premiere), and work off internal HD's. It is pretty speedy for 4K compressed. I was able to also edit RED 4K RAW footage as well into Premiere using the same rig. I think for most FS700 users, a $sub-2000 computer should be great. I built this PC to replace my iMac but I do miss Mac's OS so I will probably buy the trashcan or another iMac in a few years once this PC is slowing down.
 
Well it sounds like I might roll with the battle plan to improve my current machine for now if it can cut the mustard. If I add an Nvidia quadro k4000 card, get my RAM up to 32GB, intall a Samsung Terabyte SSD, and install a Thunderbolt port, I should be able to handle what the Odyssey offers out of the FS700, and some RED compressed footage if it came at me, Correct? Just in the world of editing and color grading, no vfx work other than some feathered masks here and there in AfterEffects.

I would prefer to hold out for another year or two and let prices drop on current computers out my price range so I am really hoping this sounds like the right plan to beef up my current PC, YES? Thanks guys for the help.
 
I'd definitely say test for yourself. Download some samples and see what you can do in a couple test workflows with the actual software you'll be using. So much of performance has to do with how the software is written and how it is optimized to take advantage of particular hardware. Adobe and Resolve are good at using the latest hardware, but even Premiere can be limited in how many CPUs or how much GPU it uses for certain types of processing. Most software decodes video in CPU only. Most likely what you have will go a long way since it's likely uncompressed RAW is not too hard on the CPU, possibly easier on the CPU than decode-heavy compressed codecs like AVCHD, you may need a storage upgrade though to handle the higher bitrates and larger files. More cores will always do more, but from a financial standpoint, with computers and how fast they obsolete and depreciate, you're always best off using what you have as long as you can stand it.
 
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Thanks Noah. Yeah, I do prefer the idea of upgrading what I have and holding out for a couple of more years if possible. Then my current computer will be a better secondary machine I can have set up for projects of this level when I get overflow and need to bring on a second editor. I am a little confused if I will be able to add a Thunderbolt port or not and will be doing some more research on that in the next week or so, right in the midst of finishing a large project.

I have been downloading short clips of ProRes and testing has shown smoother realtime playback after grading has been applied in Premiere than the AVCHD. I need to learn the workflow for getting the FS700 2K Raw DNG files into Premiere to test how my current system handles it. Again, kind of tied up at the moment wrapping up this project so research time has been limited. I only get short little gaps between gigs to figure out all this stuff so I'm trying to prep up as much as I can to get the most out of my 4 days off coming up. The 4k from the odysssey I have tried, freezes my system up after a few grade changes using Colorista in Premiere. Becuase I am not very knowlegeable about computer hardware, I am not sure what part of my system is the most inadequete and causes the lock up. I'm sure it is a combination of weaknesses though and I welcome any knowledge on that. My current limited testing has been through working off of a second internal drive I have or using an external USB 3.0 drive.


I appreciate all the advice guys! Let me know if the below sounds good and/or possible.
*Samsung Terabyte SSD (Should I be installing two of these? One for Operating system, One for Rendering, and then use a Thunderbolt RAID for footage?)
*Nvidia Quadro k4000
*Thunderbolt card (if possible!?)
*upgrade RAM to 32GB
*External Thunderbolt 6TB RAID


This would still come out to the ballpark of $2.5k but that is cheaper than dropping $5k on a new machine right now. Still have to purchase the 7Q as well so it will help to get some savings happening.

By the way, the majority of my work is shorter projects. 2-10min ranging through Commercials, Music Videos, Product Videos, Mini Docs, but I do take on the occasional Wedding Film that can run up to an hour in length. So I mainly need my system to be able to handle this kind of work. Now, when I edit a music video, I often have 5-8 Layers of video stacked at one time.......with this setup, offhand, do you guys think I will have to come up with a different method of editing my music videos?

Thanks,

_______________________________________
www.RoughCutProductions.com



 
Unfortunately, Thunderbolt needs to be on the motherboard....close proximity to the Bridge for the speed. So, to the best of my knowing, you can't get an add on T-bolt card.
 
What if I got 3 internal SSD's? One for operating System (1TB), one for Footage (2TB), and one for Render (1TB)? Then backups would be the longest part of the process to a USB 3.0 RAID. Good idea or complete nonsense? lol
 
I'm using one of those Samsung 1TB SSD's in an external enclosure that interfaces with USB3. My Diskspeed tests show around 200MBps, fast enough for 10 bit RGB 444. I'd like to try RAID0 to see if I can up the thruput, sometime. As it is, if you have a 6Gbps SATA III port, you can theoretically get 600MBps.
 
ashclever said:
I am not sure what part of my system is the most inadequete and causes the lock up. I'm sure it is a combination of weaknesses though and I welcome any knowledge on that.
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assumeing w7... computer managment / performance will help you, as will leaving taskmangler open and looking for cpu or ram spikes when working
 
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