Compressor on sound board output for stage evvents

kwkeirstead

kwkeirstead

Well-known member
I am looking for advice for a specific recording situatiion.

I do music events in theatres and get my audio from sound boards where they don't usually offer talking, orchestra and crowd singing on separate channels.

Many of these events quickly go from two people whispering, to a cast of 20 singing at full volume, with recorded music/orchestra.

If I put the volume down we don't hear the talking, if we raise it the crowd singing peaks, many times the orchestra is over the crowd, sometimes under.

No point complaining to the sound engineers, they do one sound check at what they say is the peak for the event and that is it.

Would a compressor help? (I want to boost the voices and lower the high volumes) - my camera has a limiter but it just lobs off the top frequencies which distorts the sound. (useless).

Right now I have about given up on having to constantly adjust the sound at the camera and I record on a Tascam DR-100MK II that I place front of stage. I then synch using Plural Eyes to a reference signal from an on camera Rode VideoMic (I am usually 65 - 100 feet back from the stage).

The little dials on the camera are next to useless for anything coming from a sound board, move them up a couple of clicks and its too loud, down a couple at it's not loud enough.

Suggestions, anyone?
 
Suggestion: Record at two different levels (maybe even as much as 20dB apart) on two different tracks so you have you choice of uncompressed audio at whatever level is appropriate at the moment.
Compression (or limiting or gating or whatever) is DEATH to music. NOT RECOMMENDED!

Of course, using the house reinforcement mix is a major compromise to begin with. Assuming that you understand that and you are forced to use this horrible method because you don't have the crew and/or gear to do the audio properly.

If the sound is still distorted after the limiter on your camera, then it is "pre-distorting" before it gets to the limiter. Perhaps you are hitting the camera input with a signal that is too hot to begin with.
 
Well all I can say is that just about every music studio and radio station in the world uses compression and we certainly do in TV too.

Some radio stations compress their output so much that they have a 1db dynamic range so I would say try it out and see what is best for the content that you have to handle.
 
Music studios use SELECTIVE compression, applied judiciously by humans who know what they are doing. They don't put a hard compressor on the mix bus and run everything through it.

Radio stations use compressors to increase their perceived audio levels in the pathetic game of "Loudness Wars". Furthermore the music tracks they are playing have already had the life compressed out of them before they got them, so they are "pre-compressed".

In all the cases Mr. Nattrass cites, they have experienced humans creating dedicated mixes for recording or broadcast and applying compression intelligently. None of those conditions apply in kwkeirstead's scenario.

I respectfully disagree with Mr. Nattrass and sustain my original comments. Of course, the proper way to do it would be to deploy your own microphones (or get splits from theirs) and do a proper recording mix yourself. You can NEVER EVER depend on the venue reinforcement guys to provide a proper recording mix. That is just above their pay-grade.
 
I concur with Richard.
However the caveat is: if your camera/recorder's limiter is 'stereo' (tied together, it would apply limiting to both, sensing the higher volume channel. OTOH, dual mono would be OK (w/ two separate limiters).

"Perhaps you are hitting the camera input with a signal that is too hot to begin with"
Yes, and this would distort the input stage regardless of the record volume setting. A very common mistake, many folks do not comprehend the voltage different between Mic and Line levels. (typically, -60, -10 and +4dB)
 
Richard Crowley said:
You can NEVER EVER depend on the venue reinforcement guys to provide a proper recording mix. That is just above their pay-grade.
Click to expand...

I don't know, many of these guys are really good at what they do. But what they do, is reinforcement. They aren't there to provide recording mixes for anyone who happens along. They are there to provide a live mix that works for the live audience. And that mix is almost always different than what one might want for recording purposes.

Neither good nor bad. Just is.
 
Yes, I didn't mean that the FOH guys weren't capable of creating a recording mix.
But they are not set up for it (they can't monitor it properly out in the open air in the house),
and they are being paid to create the FOH reinforcement mix which is ALWAYS DIFFERENT from a recording mix.
 
Very helpful ... Richard, Gary, Rick, Bruce...

The "venue reinforcement guys" all tell me they are there for the ambient sound, not for the camera.

I get it that an in-line compressor between the mixer and the camera is not a solution, and no way I can have my mics or anyone to tweak a multi-channel mixer of my own (no crew).

So, in the absence of any magic, it seems my Tascam DR100 MKII at the front of the stage on a little tripod seems to give the best consistent results. I have been using the directional mic but no clue what the angle is so I should perhaps try omni. The Tascam has individual volume dials for each channel and I purposefully set one a bit lower than the other.

The camera limiter on the Panasonic AG-AC160A that I use works on individual channels so I could apply it to the sound board feed and not the Rode.

So my options, given my circumstances, appear to be

a) Ch1 on-camera Rode (at 65 feet)
b) Ch2 sound board feed (hoping I will get something useful)
c) field audio recorder at the front of the stage

The live recordings are mostly archive recordings for the organizers - unless the royalty arrangement permits copies beyond personal copies for the cast, no copies are ever made.

We do, now, want to start live streaming as a means of overselling the concert halls but I have yet to find a hosting organization that can impose a local blackout. Too tedious/time consuming to have people pre-register and then phone them back to see if they indeed reside outside of the perimeter. The big avantage of, say, Concert Window is they register, collect the fees, keep a reasonable part of the revenue and remit the balance.
 
Another option is using the house console's pre-fader auxiliary sends.. if.. available and the house person allows you to adj. them. It's always good to have room mics for the music in any case.
 
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