Compression...

A

attrition4u

Member
I'm using the waves C-1 compressor. I was wondering if anyone could tell me about some good settings starting points for using the compression on a short film. In other words, do we prefer 3:1 with a threshold of...

Etc, etc.

Not looking for the bible. Just looking for some advice on a good starting point.

Thanks,

Chris
 
Chris, Welcome

Not to step on your toes or anything, but you need to understand when and where to use compression on your audio. Compression is mostly used to bring up the softer audio and bring down the louder audio to an optimum level. How does your audio originally sound? If you're going to compress the audio for finalization, you wouldn't want a ratio to be too high. The threshold should be lowered a bit with the gain higher to make up the difference. Attack around 6-10ms, Release around 400-500ms, Knee around 16-20. These are just reference numbers, but each audio is different between films.
 
Thanks for the info. Thats what I've been looking for. I have some music posted but could get no help sweetening it. Will give it a try. Thanks again. I have some very quiet soft music with a few loud sections.
 
For starters I suggest you use Ren Comp if you have it, I never use C1. While compressors do even out levels, I would assert their primary job is as a sound shaping tool. Using a compressor is not the same as turning the volume knob up and down. For example, if you have clips with dissimilar audio levels, you should use volume automation to even things out, then apply compression as needed.

Also know that if your audio suffers from being recorded in a poor room, or any sort of excessive noise, compression will actually make this more audible, not less.


You may or may not find the following helpful:


Threshold: This is the level at which the compressor is triggered. If you set the threshold to zero, the compressor is doing nothing. If you are being rather gentle, you might want to set the threshhold so the peaks spike up a couple db above the threshold.

Ratio: This is the amount of compression applied to material that goes above the threshold. The greater the ratio, the greater the amount of compression applied. You might use something like 2:1 for rather gentle compression on your stereo master track, while it would be common to use a larger ratio (6:1, 10:1) on an individual audio track. Ratios at 20:1 and greater are usually considered limiting, and make pretty drastic changes to the audio.

Attack: This is how quickly the compressor reacts to things that rise above the threshold.

Release: How long the compressor waits before releasing any gain reduction it is currently applying.

Generally, faster attack and release times are more aggressive, and change the sound more. Depending on your material, you may find that the attack and release don't seem to do much.

Threshold and ratio generally determine the overall amount of gain reduction. The more gain reduction you have going on, the more change is happening to the sound.


As Alan mentioned, applying compression always reduces the overall level of your signal, so compressors usually have makeup gain at the end so you can get the proper levels back. Using Ren Comp for an example, in the center you see the ratio slider and in yellow you get a realtime view of how much gain reduction is happening. If you see is hanging around 2db of reduction, you probably want to give the output 2db of gain to make up for it.
 
Compression use is an art. Apply as needed/desired. I like a very light amount on most dialog (less then 2/1).

Play around with it to get a feel for how it works.

Cheers
 
Thanks guys...

Thanks guys...

Thanks for all the responses guys. Definitely helping me out. Like I said, I wasn't looking for a definitive, biblical definition of what one might use as a whole; just some pointers. I am still in the infancy stages of understanding. I am now reading Jay Rose's books to help along the process.

Thanks,

Chris
 
Make sure to play around a lot... hands-on fiddlin' once you know a little biut about what you're doing is the best way to get some deeper understanding of what a compressor does, and what you might want it to do!
 
Proper order of enhancing sound?

Proper order of enhancing sound?

Please excuse my ignorance. In what order would you use compressor, normalization and reverb? I did it in that order and it seems ok but it seems to me that some filters should be used before others for best results.
 
It depends on the original clip, the effect desired, and where you are in post. Automated normalization is used rarely if at all, while by the time the video is mastered, the original clip will probably have gone through several layers of compression.
 
Normalization is really just a matter of raising or lowering the audio level, a process which is usually available in the compressor (often called "make up gain"). True normalization analyzes the entire audio segment, finds the peak, and then sets the level so that that peak is at a certain dB level. Because of this need for pre-analysis, normalization is not applies as a "live" effect, whereas compression and reverb generally are "live". For the most natural sound, add reverb AFTER compression, or the reverb will be modulated by the compressor. So, if you must have all 3, I'd say Normalization, then reverb, then compression. But normalization is sorta useless in conjunction with compression.

Anyway, like I said, forget all this and play with it. In the end, if it sounds good, it doesn't matter how you got there. If you try to follow rules rather than LISTEN, it won't sound as good as it can.
 
Just my opinion here: Normalization is useless, forget it exists and completely remove it from your vocabulary. When people say "normalization" to you, the appropriate response should be a blank stare, followed by "Huh?" :)

If whatever you are using to edit audio supports it, I highly recommend using reverbs this way:

1. Create an aux input track and place your verb plugin on it.
2. Use an aux send from whatever track(s) you want verb'ed and send the signal over to the reverb on the aux.

This is more dsp/processor efficient, and it helps things blend together better if you find yourself sending multiple items to the reverb. You can also more easily control the overall level of your effect. Actually, this suggestion works great for most types of effects.
 
During recording or in post, which is better?

During recording or in post, which is better?

Thank you for all the help. I was wondering if buying a compressor to go with the Mackie 1402 mixer would have any advantage over using software in post?
 
Well, a DISadvantage would be that you have to live with whatever settings you use while recording, no tweaking in post to find what works the best.

With a few exceptions, most outboard gear is best suited for sound reinforcement, while plugins are best suited for music- and post-production work.
 
shawnmaddock said:
With a few exceptions, most outboard gear is best suited for sound reinforcement, while plugins are best suited for music- and post-production work.
Click to expand...


Mmmm... aaaah... I sorta know what you mean, but certainly a lotta people still love their outboard gear for post! Plug-ins ain't that good yet!

But right-on that it's possible to apply effects in post, but impossible to remove 'em. Always best to record clean and effect-free when possible, then tweak in post. Unless your using your compressor more as a safety net (like a limiter) than artistically... that is, the disadvantage is you have to live with whatever settings you used; the advantage is that if you use it exactly the way you want it, you can digitize at a better average level, and protect yourself from peaks.
 
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This is what I am seeking. I have very quiet to loud enviroments to record and need a safety net.



"the advantage is that if you use it exactly the way you want it, you can digitize at a better average level, and protect yourself from peaks".
 
I would recommend using software over hardware unless you are willing to spend the money for very good hardware compressors. With a few exceptions, most of the really desirable hardware compressors are going to run you $1000 a channel or more. The quality of a Waves bundle of compressors for $300-400 for example exceeds the quality of most hardware compressors you are going to get for that price, and you get to use a bunch of them at once.

Software compressors are very good, but there is always the need for hardware. It is very common, I would say probably normative, to record voiceovers and vocals with compression direct to tape/disc. I do it all the time. You should probably skip that until you gain experience however.
 
ullanta said:
Mmmm... aaaah... I sorta know what you mean, but certainly a lotta people still love their outboard gear for post! Plug-ins ain't that good yet!
Click to expand...

True, I guess I was speaking more to the design of plug-ins... it's a little easier to tweak a plug-in during post then run your audio out through a D/A, through your gear, and back into an A/D to the computer. Low budget converters can lower the quality of the audio enough that the quality gain of using good outboard gear is partially negated. But if you have/ can afford good equipment, it can certainly be worth it. As far as I know, most engineers still master with outboard gear. At the same time, I unless I was using a redundant system like VENUE, I wouldn't trust a computer to not crash during live performances.

That being said, like ullanta said, a peak limiter is a good idea when recording. Most field mixers have one built in, so if you're thinking about getting one for the future, even a small MixPre, you could run that between your Mackie and your camera, kill two birds with one stone. Stand alone limiters are pretty inexpensive though too.
 
newtodvx100a said:
This is what I am seeking. I have very quiet to loud enviroments to record and need a safety net.



"the advantage is that if you use it exactly the way you want it, you can digitize at a better average level, and protect yourself from peaks".
Click to expand...


Well, the trick is, then, to learn to use your compressor expertly and "get it right" at recording time... and this is not trivial! Until you are really expert with the compressor, you'll be better off recording at low average levels and tweaking in post. Or, if you can be redundant, you can get started playing around earlier.

The FMR RNC ("Really Nice Compressor") is a well-regarded, fairly low-cost device...
 
Peak limiter

Peak limiter

Will a peak limiter do more then the limiters in the DVX? My guess is yes?



"That being said, like ullanta said, a peak limiter is a good idea when recording. Most field mixers have one built in, so if you're thinking about getting one for the future, even a small MixPre, you could run that between your Mackie and your camera, kill two birds with one stone. Stand alone limiters are pretty inexpensive though too."
 
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