Compositing multiple still images

B

Barry_S

Moderator
I'm trying to animate still images of falling flowers and composite it with live footage, but it's turning out to be more complicated than I thought. I'd like to have 10-12 flower heads rotating around their center axis while they drop from the top of the frame to the bottom--basically a rain of rotating flowers. It seems like I'll need a separate track for each flower image unless anyone can think of a way to simplify things. Also, If I set the axis of rotation in the Event Pan/Crop window and try to keyframe the rotation and motion along the y-axis (up-down), the axis doesn't stay with the flower--it sweeps around. Is there a way to pin the axis on a given point, regardless of other frame motion?

Maybe I should just animate the whole mess in photoshop or illustrator and composite the completed animation with the live action, but I'm trying to see if there's a reasonable way of doing this all in Vegas.
 
Get After Effects. You'll have a much easier time, and you can move the anchor point to the center of the flower(or where ever you want) so the flower will stop sweeping around. You could crop and resize the flowers in photoshop to recenter them as well if you're not wanting to invest in After Effects, however I highly recommend AE for pretty much everything.
 
Here's where you need to use a combination of pan/crop and track motion. You can move the whole frame -- axis and all -- anywhere you want if you do it with track motion.
 
AE makes an awsome cup 'o joe too! :)

Seriously, AE is made for animation, so it would most likely be better suited for any task requiring animation, but Vegas can certainly do the task you're wanting to do.

Firstly, if you're wanting to have multiple objects animating on the screen at the same time, you will need to have each of them on a different track. This goes for any animation program.
Also, in order to change the center of rotation (aka: the "anchor point") for an object, you could adjust the "X Offset" and "Y Offset" values under the "Rotation" header in the Track Motion dialogue. I don't think you can simply drag the anchor point around in the Workspace, and the fact that you can't see the actual image in the workspace might make accurately positioning the anchor point a little difficult, but it's definitely possible.

However, if you use Event Pan/Crop for the rotation, you can adust the X/Y Offset values simply by dragging the anchor point around in the workspace, and you can see the image as well. Bonus! :)
 
Well, I do have AE, but I'm trying to do more compositing directly in Vegas to simplify my workflow. Also, I *did* position the anchor point on the flower's center, but when it get's combined with the vertical motion, the axis shifts for some reason. I'll try it out using track motion and see if that works--so far I've only been trying in the Even Pan/Crop window.
 
Barry,

I happened across this thread, and although it is a while since the last post, let me help if I can.

The BEST and I do mean best solution for you and for anyone else who EVER wants to achieve the effect you are looking for is simple. Get a friend who has a 3D program of any sort, and although I know I will be jumped on for bringing it up again, take a look into a $300 dollar program called Particle Illusion (from Wondertouch and get the demo and you will see why I tout it) and have the 3D program or Illusion do it for you.

The main reason is this: Manual Keyframing. I have read that you post in the audio forum, so I will make a nice analogy. I am sure you know about FM synthesized sounds, be they a piano or train, helicopter or whatever. FM synthesis can be used to simulate sounds, but imagine taking four operating waves and configuring them all by hand to blend together into something that sounds like a freight train. Sounds nightmarish? Well it is, and in essence, that is what you are trying to do by manually animating individual layers to simulate reality of gravity, wind, weight, all of it. If you had the choice of either recording a train or building the sound by hand, which would you choose?

My point is this: Every 3D app out there that has a particle system has the ability to have objects replace the particles, or more accurately, instead of attaching a texture to a particle to make fire, smoke, or whatever, you insert an object. Think of the Sentinel robot invasion of Zion (when thy come streaming out of the hole in the ceiling) in the last Matrix, the Scarab Beetles in the first Mummy, the flying keys in the first Harry Potter, and you know what I mean. So, let the Computer do what it does best: COMPUTE. Let the software take into account all the variables that you can change and keyframe at will. Not falling fast enough? Make 'em fall faster with more weight. Not spinning enough? Put in an Affector and let it do the work for you. Bottom line is a computer can be set up and do the calculations for thousands of flowers faster than any one person can do just one. I use Lightwave, and have done exactly that, though with falling leaves and birds.

Trying to keyframe realism in movement is not an easy thing to do. That's one of the reasons Motion Capture was invented. Not only did it speed up the process of Animation, but it made the movements looks real, because, well, they were.

And the best part is, all the software out there that can do this will give you perfect alphas, and even separate alphas you can use as a track matte. AND, you can have only one video file with multiple objects, or twenty if it pleases you. It really doesn't matter. Illusion is a great and cheap program with the gentlest learning curve I have ever seen in software. Or, simply find a local 3D'er in the area and have them do it, or better yet, get a decent and inexpensive 3D package and do nothing but learn the particle system. It will come in handy more times than you could imagine.

Man, that turned out to be a longer reply than I thought. :thumbsup:
 
there was a session at the post-pro conference at NAB where a guy was demonstrating something very similar. he was using after effects to randomly animate several copies of the same graphic (which happened to be a flower). He also mentioned that they used the same technique in Xena to create an army of randomly moving soldiers on a distant hillside using the same graphic of one soldier. i wish i could remember exactly what he did (i had never used after effects at the time) or who the trainer was. I know that he was at the Vegas Users party and he was wearing a VASST shirt. He took the flower graphic and used photoshop to tile it and give him 30 flowers (6 columns, 5 rows). then he imported that file into aftereffects and did something to split the comp into 6 columns and 5 rows and used a random animation preset to animate each of the tiles separately.
 
I'de like to know what they were doing. Sounds like some kind of version of Massive, but for AE? that would be great! Apart from a dedicated 3D program, I can't see how this could be fully done, or at least have the objects look more than two dimensional.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top