EVA1: Complaint + Request: PLEASE provide better HD Codec!!

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filmguy123

Veteran
Mitch, queue the Obi Wan Kenobi R2 message: Help us, you're our only hope.

I must be honest my frustration with the anemic HD codecs on the EVA1 has grown as I have had some new realizations of the practical limitations. Please hear me out.

  • EVA1 HD codecs are currently limited to 50mbps in LongGOP and 100mbps in ALL-I. These should have approx equivalent quality. This borders on "Proxy" quality in ProRes! It is also 50% of the bandwidth allotted on the consumer division's GHx lines. It is anemic.
  • EVA1 10-bit VFR Slow Motion Modes are ONLY available in HD. If you want VFR slow motion in 4K, it is only available in 8-bit. Thus, the only method in which to shoot 10-bit VFR slow motion (such as 36, 48, 72, 96, etc.) is in HD and thus at a terribly limited codec.
  • EVA1 External Recording allows 10-bit up to 60p, but *NOT* in VFR. Only at timebase standards (24, 30, 50, 60). So, even with an Atomos Shogun Inferno, it is impossible to recording either 4K or HD 10-bit footage at 36, 48, 72, 96, etc. (unless in RAW - but more on that in a second).
  • EVA1 RAW recording, unless shooting at 5.7K RAW (which requires ProRes RAW), is all 4/3 crop recording. In RAW, yes, you can now shoot 36, 48, 72, 96, etc. in a high quality, high color codec. Woohoo! Except, it's RAW - which means it's huge file sizes. It's cumbersome as it requires an SDI recorder like the Inferno. It's also CROP mode at 4/3, which means wide angle shots get very hard and all your lenses must be adjusted for this.


In short:

  • Unless shooting 4/3 crop RAW, the EVA1 has no way to achieve 10-bit VFR slow motion footage with a decent codec.
  • The EVA1 cannot offer any slow motion internally that is either (A) 10-bit or (B) > 50mbps LongGOP codec.
  • Unless adding a heavy and bulky external recorder, defeating the point of the nimble EVA1 body, the EVA1 is not at all idea for any HD shooting due to the anemic HD codec options.



**** PLEASE ****

Mitch, please. Please. Please. Is there any way we can get a firmware patch (sooner is much better than later) to open up some more robust HD codecs. I feel this is a huge oversight. Even the GHx line has better HD codecs. I am disheartened for how limited the EVA1 internal options are. It's extremely limited when the internal HD codecs are pretty much "off limits" for pro-work, and the 4K codecs are good but can't be utilized for any 10-bit slow motion.

REQUESTING:

  • 422 LongGOP 150mbps or greater for HD
  • 422 ALL-I 200mbps or greater for HD



If you're an EVA1 user or potential user, please chime in here with support. I can't imagine I'm the only one very disappointed with the confusingly poor HD codec options. It just makes no sense, especially when such a big sell of an EVA1 is the lightweight design and internal recording options.
 
This sucks! Am considering the EVA1 coming from GH5 and this is super disappointing...the HD codecs on the GH5 are fantastic.
 
Yup, it’s really a bummer - and also a super easy fix...

So hoping this will be added. Mitch said the feedback has been passed along...
 
filmguy123 said:
EVA1 HD codecs are currently limited to 50mbps in LongGOP and 100mbps in ALL-I. These should have approx equivalent quality. This borders on "Proxy" quality in ProRes! It is also 50% of the bandwidth allotted on the consumer division's GHx lines. It is anemic.
Click to expand...

This is a false equivalency. I know that you're looking at ProRes Proxy at 45 Mbps and thinking, "Hey, the EVA1's HD codec is only 5 Mbps more!" But that really is an apples/oranges comp, and if you dig around a bit, you'll see fairly quickly that the allotted bitrates (for both LongGOP and All-I) are on par with most other modern HD in-camera codecs (see XAVC-L/-I). Maybe they're not outstanding... but, they are FAR from "anemic."

However, would I like to have something like a 12-bit, or 444 HD codec option available for VFR shooting? Sure why not ;) But unless I have some wild ideas to upres to 4K or greater, I'm not sure it's even remotely necessary. 10-bit 2K/HD at 50/100 seems to hold up fine for most grading.
 
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The GH5 codec is better... it’s a $2000 consumer division dslr. 50mbps is embarrassing. It’s fine for 24p but the point is that HD is specifically for VFR for many users, and 10 bit VFR at that point. Which makes 50mbps paltry. And worse than a consumer camera.

Fact that EVA1 has a 100mbps Hd codec option when you change the frequency just confounds how annoying the issue is. It’s an easy fix, and Frustrating that this wasn’t improved 6 months ago.

Even if one can make the argument 50 is enough, it’s irrelevant - because there’s no reason NOT to have a higher mbps codec.
 
filmguy123 said:
Yup, it’s really a bummer - and also a super easy fix...

So hoping this will be added. Mitch said the feedback has been passed along...
Click to expand...

While I agree that more robust HD codecs would be a nice addition, I'm not thinking that they would be a 'super easy fix.' An easy fix is opening up a hidden feature (like 4K for the Sony F5) - this seems like a lot of coding to get it right - not knowing the data flow in the camera but assuming that different scaling algorithms are used for the various sensor areas utilized when capturing for 1080.

I would like to see the feature, but also want to emphasize that it's really important not to do a 'quick and dirty' update for a feature that would bring potentially increased IQ to HD recording! if it gets added, please do it right!
 
I’d love to see 150-200 mbps, but I said super easy fix only because 100mbps is currently in camera in HD if you swap frequency to 50p or 60p. Perhaps there is more to it as you say, only the engineers reallly know, but I do hope they make it a priority in any case. I’m super bummed I can’t use the camera in the way I had hoped nearly as well as I’d like - a lightweight travel rig capable of high quality HD internal shooting, specifically VFR. Even with the atomos, the VFR still can’t be done.
 
I don't want to attribute to EVA1 what may be Vimeo compression, but this has similarities to what I see on my end shooting VFR at the lower codec.

There is a general lack of crispness and cleanness to the image that is evident from the first shot throughout - but look for example at the white rail at :12 for an easier to see example. I'm not nitpicking edges and aliasing here, I am just pointing out some of the problem in a more finely detailed/higher contrast area to illustrate. The image in general is of a different quality and caliber than what the EVA1 otherwise outputs (I am *not* criticizing Zak's beautiful cinematography, to be clear as well).

And to be fair, this is not just the mix mode, HD mode, or high FPS - because I've shot in ProRes and RAW on the Atomos at locked slow motion modes (120/240) and they look much cleaner. It's the codec that is causing this.

Now, while yes, I think tripling the codec would DEFINITELY make this look better - this string of clips in particular isn't terribly problematic, because it's not really pushing things too much. The grade is darker to begin with, and certain grades can cover up problems more by going darker or crushing down any shadows (and you can also run noise reduction in Resolve or elsewhere that can help with blocking and codec artificats). But these are largely shots without a ton of movement too, shots without a ton of slow motion action happening.

Things get much more exasperated when you are either (A) shooting a higher motion scene (say, kids in africa pumping water from a well and want a bunch of water droplets plopping around in the sunlight as their dark faces smile and laugh and the camera moves). This really pushes the limits, and especially when say, (B) when you want to start lifting any shadows, as is one of the benefits of 10-bit, and the codec doesn't have the juice.

While I see the issue here, on a higher key grade that is brighter and with more demanding shots, mixed with higher bitrate shots that then contrast, they really stand out consistently.

What I am talking about is not some abysmal un-passable quality in all scenarios of a codec on a camera. This clip is just fine, even though I think the issue is visible in it. Where it really becomes problematic is not highlighted in an all 120fps video with a dark grade of beautiful scenery, it's in a mixed format project with demanding action shots or things that require a grade that lifts vs crushes. I can shoot things too that look just fine in 120fps, and I can also shoot things that really show the weakness of the 50mbps.
 
Not a bad idea - many things I simply can’t use or can’t show, yet.

But perhaps I should find some time for this.

Then again, who would have thought asking for a codec increase over 50mbps in 2018 on a $7k+ camera would be such a contentious and arduous process?
 
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