Coming back to Panasonic. Should I get the AC90 or a used HMC150?

JoeJITSU

JoeJITSU

Veteran
I really need your help guys in picking up a camcorder to go with my 5D Mark II. I am getting better at matching up colors plus I might be able to use the New Sony Vegas Pro 12 which has a new feature where you can match your clip to other clips with color correction.
So, Please let me know what you guys think. I will be using it for weddings as well as Conference and Seminars. Thank you


Joe
 
I have both the AC90 and HMC150 and for me it's hands down the AC90. It does everything the HMC150 does and does it much better.
 
Currently still using an HVX; I've shot with a friend's HMC150 and found the two cameras almost indistinguishably similar. Either can be picked up cheap.

There are too many good choices in this category to make a confident top pick; there's still the old reliable HPX170, then the HPX250 and AC130/160, Sony has their excellent old EX-1R and newer PMW-200, Canon has the very sound XF100 and XF300...

If buying new to cooperate with a 5D, I might go with the Canon XF's to potentially share media (so long as I knew which card was for which camera). On the other hand, Sony EX cams tend to be requested more often by producers hiring freelancers like me (albeit not often enough that I've been moved to buy one). You can do a completely professional job with any of these cameras.
 
mcbob said:
Currently still using an HVX; I've shot with a friend's HMC150 and found the two cameras almost indistinguishably similar. Either can be picked up cheap.

There are too many good choices in this category to make a confident top pick; there's still the old reliable HPX170, then the HPX250 and AC130/160, Sony has their excellent old EX-1R and newer PMW-200, Canon has the very sound XF100 and XF300...

If buying new to cooperate with a 5D, I might go with the Canon XF's to potentially share media (so long as I knew which card was for which camera). On the other hand, Sony EX cams tend to be requested more often by producers hiring freelancers like me (albeit not often enough that I've been moved to buy one). You can do a completely professional job with any of these cameras.
Click to expand...
Whats the Big Difference with the EX1 and EX1r. I see about a $1000 to $2000 difference between each camera, why?
 
I think you'llhave difficulty matching the 5d with the panny. The sensors are quite different. Both cameras are great, but different. Canon sensors are more aligned. Same as if you buy a GH3. Likely will work better with a Panny camcorder. Might want to rent first, if you can.
 
HMC40, Parfocal lens, waveform monitor, touch screen autofocus, button for 1 press autofocus, smaller and lighter. None of these features are in the AC90, AC90 Is a downgrade from HMC40.
For low light or shallow depth of field go with your DSLR, Any way they will never match, different animals DSLR has more color depth besides shallow DOF, an better low light performance with the great disadvantage
of Heavy Moire and Aliasing, Get the Mark III has much less Moire and aliasing.
 
dkamisat How are the two camera in low light? Is the ac90 better, same, or not as good in low light?
Outside- I heard you need a ND filter on the ac90. When would you need this, and is there a way in the camera to tell when you would? Not really excited to take the extra time to put on and off a ND filter. Even outside there are times I go from shade to bright sunlight. What is your experience?
Ac90 autofocus, how does it compare to the HMC150? Hopefully it is better then the ac130.
I really hope the ac90 would be a great second camera for my HMC150. The price is not to bad.
let me know if you have any test videos to share.
thanks.
 
^^^Like Barry said in the other thread, the HMC150 is naturally more light sensitive than the AC90. The thing is, the HMC150 starts off with a high amount of noise even at 0db. The AC90 at 0db is completely noiseless. So when you gain up on the AC90, there really isn't any major noise until you get into the high teens.

At full sunlight, you will need a .9 ND filter to get the iris to 6.4 or less. I'm not sure how sunny it gets where you live but in Hawaii it gets real bright so .9 is necessary. If the shade is much darker, than you will have to take off the ND filter (I've actually had to do this). A compromise might be a .6 filter instead.

Autofocus on the AC90 is faster than the already fast HMC150. However, it still has that problem where it likes to focus on the background instead of the foreground.
 
Thank you both for helping me. Hopefully the face-detect works well. Sounds like this would be a great camera with my HMC150. Plus the price dropped on it too.
I live in Minnesota. During the winter the snow gets bright out with the sun, during the summer, we have some bright days. I would rather be in Hawaii right now though.
 
I may be a bit to biased to answer this one, BUT the AC90 does have the image stabilization system that is VERY impressive. It's worth considering.


Bob Diaz
 
I'm surprised to hear reports that the AC90 favors the background instead of the foreground.

This was a critique leveled at the AG-AC130/160 but I did extensive testing on the pizeoelectric technology that is at the heart of focusing for the 130/160 and perhaps the AC90, only to find that shifting focus from one object to the next in terms of time to lock in on focus seemed to depend a lot on how you approach a particular target (i.e through a high contrast pathway or not through a high contrast pathway).

It seemed to me these findings were consistent with Bermie's sciientific projections.


http://www.indiaeveryday.in/video/p/panasonic-ac-160a-autofocustest-part-1/5r_QPIA4tsY.htm?ss=true

http://www.indiaeveryday.in/video/p...-auto-focus-push-auto/Vi7Pcyw3NlE.htm?ss=true


I was never able over a period of three months to see that the camera got "bored" with a particular focus setting and would lock in to another setting.
 
If I was considering the AC90 vs HMC150, I would want to know how the low-light performance compared.

Yes, the HMC150 is an older camera, but I don't know if the 1/3 inch chip size vs 1/4 inch chip size makes a difference for low-light work. ( otherwise I would expect the AC90 to produce a sharper image with significantly better image stabilization, making handheld work a breeze )
 
I own an HMC150 and we have an AC90 at work. If I had to pick one right now knowing what I know, it would be the AC90 hands down for just about any situation except legal work due to the lack of burned in time/date stamp.

It looks like alot of concern is the low light performance. The HMC150 SHOULD perform better with larger sensors with lower pixel count but it does not, due to advancements in technology I imagine. The AC90 has the ability to apply a ton of gain and still have a clean usable picture. This also means that DRS isn't as scary anymore, making it very usefull for theater production filming. To my eyes, 18db of gain on the ac90 is comparable to 3db on the 150. 30db of gain on the AC90 starts getting a bit noisy but still usable in my opinion. I don't know how much of it is the backlit MOS sensors or how much is software noise reduction but it is very effective and impressive. The bottom line however is that the AC9 is a great low light shooter for having such small sensors.

The AC90 does have an ND filter built in but it is only a .9 I believe and it would need some help in the brightest shooting situations but the way it is automatically inserted as the iris is closed is brilliant. No more sudden exposure changes when the sun comes out and you have to click in a stronger ND filter. The image quality even with a bit of difreaction due to too small of an aperature still blows the HMC150 away however. Even though neither of the two cameras would match a 5d mkII all that well, the AC90's image would come alot closer in terms of detail. Also, the focus assist peaking is done quite nice on the ac90. Plus, it has 3 manual rings! The Image stabilizer is something else when in full hybrid mode.

The biggest complaint I have as of now on the AC90 is the doggone servo zoom-ring. That thing is awfull. I've heard some people say that it's not that bad but they obviously have never used a good one like on canon XHG1s. This thing lags like crazy. It lags when you start your zoom and even lags after you stop turning the ring. What it does is track your ending position on the zoom ring and terminates the zoom there. While that might seem like a good idea, it is very unintuitive due to how much delay there is between rin gmovement and camera response. Other small downsides are that the ac90 does not have a wavefor monitor, just a histogram (I typically use zebras during run-and-gun anyway) and the lcd screen feels fragile and flimsy to move in and out

Anyhow, I meant to just say I would recomend the AC90 over the HMC150 any day but ended up writing a book to justify that. To sum it up, the biggest advantages for me are MUCH better effective low light performance, 1080 60p, dual SD cards, excellent full auto mode and a peaking focus assist that I would be confident using in any tough run and gun situation such as pulsing lighting or low framerate where autofocus wouldn't be the best. The benefits of my HMC150 to me are the waveform monitor, better eyepeice, time/date stamp and more built in ND filter options.
 
Is your budget enough for the 130A? Unless you need SDI out, that might be worth looking into. Will have great low-light performance and a 22x zoom lens.
 
I'm kind of in the same boat. I want to get rid of my HDV camera and get a Panasonic AVCHD camera to replace it for event work. I have an AF100 that I use almost all the time. The exception being events that have to be covered all the way through (like a college graduation, or a ceremony of some kind). But if I had one of them (versus my HDV camera), I think I would probably use it more since there wouldn't be the hassle of capturing the tape and dealing with the crappy HDV look.

So I'm leaning toward the HMC150. I'd really like to be able to do timecode sync with my AF100, which it will do. I'm pretty sure that the AC90 wouldn't. Do you guys think that the HMC150 is the right choice for me here? I can't spend what the AC cameras are going for.
 
Having used the ac90 and currently own 2 hmc150s the things I like better about the ac90 are
1. better LCD with focus in red. Easier to Manual focus.
2. 1080 60p.
3. OIS is better
4. Uses the old tried and true batteries like the DVX

Things I like better about the hmc150 are
1. CCDs. No rolling shutter
2. Waveform
3. ND filters

I don't like the slight delay zoom ring on the ac90.
I haven't directly compared them yet in low light . Seem close
 
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