Color Shift While Panning

D

Denniscasey

Well-known member
Still learning to use HMC40 while on vacation (agree its not the best way to learn to use new camera). To reduce risk of my errors I have generally left camera on full auto. While panning north to south on beaches with ocean surf crashing on rocky outcroppings (sun at back) I sometimes see color shifts in some portions of scan--I can only see these shifts while viewing shots at days end on high def TV so can't correct in the field while shooting.

I assume color shifts due to ATW (automatic tracking white balance) trying to adjust to different light conditions. I know for best results I should manually set white balance but because scenery I am viewing is far away I can't use technique Barry suggests (have subject hold white card and balance on that light). I also don't have a lot of time to do a lot of manual adjustments.

Under these conditions which approach will give me best chance for accurate stable white balance: (1) initially let ATW set white balance and then use ATW Lock to hold that white balance setting throughout panning shot or; (2) manually set white balance at beginning of shot if I have time and use that setting during pans?

I have to say my old VX2000 seemed to automattically manage color better than HMC40 (which is why I never learned manual white balance setting techniques) but maybe high definition which is great with HMC40 makes color setting more noticeable.

Thank you, Dennis
 
I think you've got it figured out already. Automatic white balance, like auto iris, can cause shifts in the image settings whenever anything in the scene changes.

When shooting scenery, it should be possible to white balance on a card held in front of the lens close to the camera before re-framing the shot on the distant subject. The principle is that the light (the sun in this case) falling on the subject is the same color as the light falling on your nearby white card, regardless of the difference in distance. The white card doesn't necessarily have to be close to the actual subject, it just needs to be lit by the same source(s), and this applies whether you're shooting indoors or outdoors, with controlled or "found" lighting. (You do need to be aware of situations like where you and the camera are in the shade and the distant mountains are in full sunlight, though, and adjust your procedure accordingly.) Or, you could just lock the white balance at the 5600°K preset for a quick approximation when shooting outdoors. Either one would almost certainly be better than depending on ATW, which I find to be pretty undependable most of the time. You'll need to take the camera out of full-auto mode to use these settings, of course, but that doesn't preclude continuing to use autofocus or auto-iris, if that's your preference.

One good thing is that unlike focus, composition, and steadiness, white balance, as long as it stays constant during each shot, is one aspect of the image that is relatively easy to fix up in post. It's good to be as close as possible in the camera because it gives the best signal-to-noise ratio, minimizes banding and other artifacts, and saves you time in editing, but making minor corrections is not a huge problem if necessary, and all the editing programs I know of have some way to do it.

- Greg
 
Thank you Greg and Grant. The situation Greg referred to where I am in shade or overcast while distant scene is in full sun was exactly what I was concerned about if I did a manual white balance with white card held in front of camera---i.e. light "temperature" where I stand different from light "temperature" shining on distant scene. I have since tried both letting camera ATW initially set white balance and then did ATW Lock; I also just set "daylight" temp--5600K. And you are right, both those settings did better than leaving ATW engaged. And of course I can adjust in post if I use daylight or ATW Lock settings--just one more step in editing. And it was good you reminded me that putting camera in manual mode only affects things you manually adjust---good help for beginners. Dennis
 
If I am in a hurry, I'll use the ATW and then lock it in. It works pretty well when you don't have time to shoot a card. Make sure your exposure is fairly close before you do this.

Grant
 
Denniscasey said:
Still learning to use HMC40 while on vacation (agree its not the best way to learn to use new camera). To reduce risk of my errors I have generally left camera on full auto. While panning north to south on beaches with ocean surf crashing on rocky outcroppings (sun at back) I sometimes see color shifts in some portions of scan--I can only see these shifts while viewing shots at days end on high def TV so can't correct in the field while shooting.

I assume color shifts due to ATW (automatic tracking white balance) trying to adjust to different light conditions. I know for best results I should manually set white balance but because scenery I am viewing is far away I can't use technique Barry suggests (have subject hold white card and balance on that light). I also don't have a lot of time to do a lot of manual adjustments.

Under these conditions which approach will give me best chance for accurate stable white balance: (1) initially let ATW set white balance and then use ATW Lock to hold that white balance setting throughout panning shot or; (2) manually set white balance at beginning of shot if I have time and use that setting during pans?

I have to say my old VX2000 seemed to automattically manage color better than HMC40 (which is why I never learned manual white balance setting techniques) but maybe high definition which is great with HMC40 makes color setting more noticeable.

Thank you, Dennis
Click to expand...

I don't want to be rude but if you want to do good video go manual for almost every single aspect in video.
The white balance can be achieved with high accuracy with a gray card 18%
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._DL_1712QD_12_LiteDisc_QD_Exposure_White.html
I bet you will do better in your next trip.
 
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Thank you Felipe, and you are not rude--just persistent in trying to educate me which I appreciate. When I have more time I need to understand more about white balance setting--at the moment I am still wondering how manually setting white balance by holding card up in front of camera in shady spot I am standing will impact color rendation of distant scenery that may be in full sunlight? In this situation I wonder if I am better off zooming in on distant scenery with camera in ATW and then do ATW Lock on distant scenery to pan around on distant scenery? Dennis
 
Dennis,

I prefer to use the white or gray card solution. I have a Lastolite Ezybalance thingy: http://www.lastolite.com/ezybalance.php

However, in more challenging outdoors work (in similar situations to you) I just set the cam to 5600k and forget about it, I can tweak the picture in post if I'm not happy with it.
 
Denniscasey said:
Thank you Felipe, and you are not rude--just persistent in trying to educate me which I appreciate. When I have more time I need to understand more about white balance setting--at the moment I am still wondering how manually setting white balance by holding card up in front of camera in shady spot I am standing will impact color rendation of distant scenery that may be in full sunlight? In this situation I wonder if I am better off zooming in on distant scenery with camera in ATW and then do ATW Lock on distant scenery to pan around on distant scenery? Dennis
Click to expand...
You have to white balance with the same light that is affecting the area you want to record, not white balancing in shadow , and your scenery is in full sun light.
However, in my experience gray card is more accurate than white, in fact I never use white, only gray, as Mike said Lastolite version does the same job.
I have some Lastolites and some Photoflex in about any camera bag or jacket I have.
ATW is an alternative not as precise as Manual and then lock it, but if you want to play the game, Try ATW and lock, if you don't like it go to 5600k.
For me not to have the gray card is a Caos
 
Thank you all for very helpful "tutorial" for real world lighting conditions. Very beautiful scenery on north shore of Oahu but encompasses a wide range of scenery from beaches to surf to ocean to green covered hills/mountains with tradewinds bringing in clouds then sun and so forth affecting light conditions. Sometimes time is very limited to catch ocean/beach or mountains in sunlight which has an impact on which white balance techique (combined with post) I choose at this stage in my learning/experience curve. Of course as time goes on I have yet the whole world of scene settings to experiment with--at moment I believe I am capturing most "accurate" rendition of scenery, but compared to my VX2000 days (standard definition, 3 CCD's 1/3 inch) I note a certain "harshness" vs VX2000 (softer, perhaps more saturated colors with automatic settings for VX2000) which looks at times too bright. And as I mentioned earlier, much of that I expect is associated with much greater definition (which as many have noted provides some harshness). Overall impression of HMC40 is very favorable allowing even an amateur like myself to capture excellent footage (using mostly automatic settings) with a lot of room to grow and learn how to get even better shots. Dennis
 
Denniscasey said:
Thank you all for very helpful "tutorial" for real world lighting conditions. Very beautiful scenery on north shore of Oahu but encompasses a wide range of scenery from beaches to surf to ocean to green covered hills/mountains with tradewinds bringing in clouds then sun and so forth affecting light conditions. Sometimes time is very limited to catch ocean/beach or mountains in sunlight which has an impact on which white balance techique (combined with post) I choose at this stage in my learning/experience curve. Of course as time goes on I have yet the whole world of scene settings to experiment with--at moment I believe I am capturing most "accurate" rendition of scenery, but compared to my VX2000 days (standard definition, 3 CCD's 1/3 inch) I note a certain "harshness" vs VX2000 (softer, perhaps more saturated colors with automatic settings for VX2000) which looks at times too bright. And as I mentioned earlier, much of that I expect is associated with much greater definition (which as many have noted provides some harshness). Overall impression of HMC40 is very favorable allowing even an amateur like myself to capture excellent footage (using mostly automatic settings) with a lot of room to grow and learn how to get even better shots. Dennis
Click to expand...

Dennis, you have a large amount of controls in this camera to control, contrast , sharpness and many many other things, by now try the cine gamma type V for vivid colors with better Dynamic range than normal.
Again automatic will never bring you to an understanding of what you are doing.
 
Back from vacation and as time permits I will experiment/learn more of the multitude of "non-auto" settings--using controlled shots but non-important scenes to learn settings and view impact. Barry Green's book and forum posts will provide baseline knowledge for "100's of scenes" to understand more about camera settings. Hopefully at some point I can contribute to forum rather than take from forum. Dennis
 
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