I have been suckered into buying a series of "Looks" from such retailers as MotionFX and Rampart Design. I hardly ever see anyone commenting about the use of these plugins, especially in regards to the DVX200. Do you use "Looks" on your footage or do you do make up your own? Are "Looks" a way around some of the deficiencies in the DVX200? Etc...in short are they any use to you?
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Color Looks and LuTS etc _Are they worth it?
- Thread starter greytail
- Start date
I have been suckered into buying a series of "Looks" from such retailers as MotionFX and Rampart Design. I hardly ever see anyone commenting about the use of these plugins, especially in regards to the DVX200. Do you use "Looks" on your footage or do you do make up your own? Are "Looks" a way around some of the deficiencies in the DVX200? Etc...in short are they any use to you?
At this time I have never considered buying into looks. Mostbof my work requires everything to look as natural as possible. If I was doing more of a film look then maybe I would have a different answer.
I have been suckered into buying a series of "Looks" from such retailers as MotionFX and Rampart Design. I hardly ever see anyone commenting about the use of these plugins, especially in regards to the DVX200. Do you use "Looks" on your footage or do you do make up your own? Are "Looks" a way around some of the deficiencies in the DVX200? Etc...in short are they any use to you?
Color Finale has some interesting LUTS. They do not yet have the DZX200 as a camera setting, however I have found the GH4 settings they do have to be a good place to start. The LUT effect often needs tweaking but they are great places to start if you are looking for a certain atmospheric look. I have also used Color Finale to add the Panasonic v-log LUT to footage, which will work with both the DVX200 and the GH4.
Until last weekend, I was using the AlexaV3_K1S1_LogC2Video_Rec709_eEE built into Speedgrade because I loved the bright colors and it worked well with V-Log. I recently downloaded the correct one for DVX200 though, so here's my first video experimenting with VLog_to_V709_ForDVX200_ver100:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLBs1llpibs
After applying the LUT, I set Saturation to 1.4 and Contrast to 1.25. A little gamma adjusting here and there. I shot with the safety margins at 2.39:1 so that I could export out at 2.39:1.
In my experience, V-Log is great outdoors, but I've had some issues with banding and such. Check out the banding in the blue sky at 0:42 and 1:12 above. Also, check out the walls in this video review I shot in V-Log (for kicks): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Me0lg2ANNw
The banding is disappointing, and no LUT or Look I've found will fix it. I shot V-Log for a few sunset clips at a wedding, and the sunset was heavily banded. A client not savvy with video might not notice it, but I sure do.
FYI, I downloaded the DVX200 LUT here:
http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/products/ag-dvx200/exp.html
I don't do much with looks...I usually strive for an image that looks just like I remember in real life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLBs1llpibs
After applying the LUT, I set Saturation to 1.4 and Contrast to 1.25. A little gamma adjusting here and there. I shot with the safety margins at 2.39:1 so that I could export out at 2.39:1.
In my experience, V-Log is great outdoors, but I've had some issues with banding and such. Check out the banding in the blue sky at 0:42 and 1:12 above. Also, check out the walls in this video review I shot in V-Log (for kicks): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Me0lg2ANNw
The banding is disappointing, and no LUT or Look I've found will fix it. I shot V-Log for a few sunset clips at a wedding, and the sunset was heavily banded. A client not savvy with video might not notice it, but I sure do.
FYI, I downloaded the DVX200 LUT here:
http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/products/ag-dvx200/exp.html
I don't do much with looks...I usually strive for an image that looks just like I remember in real life.
Last edited:
GeorgeAbbottClark
Member
If you want to use a DVX 200 as the B camera to VariCam 35, then is the Varicam 35 LUT V-log to V 709 the one to use? I hear V Log L is not the same, but I cannot find out what else I should use. Suggestions?
Until last weekend, I was using the AlexaV3_K1S1_LogC2Video_Rec709_eEE built into Speedgrade because I loved the bright colors and it worked well with V-Log. I recently downloaded the correct one for DVX200 though, so here's my first video experimenting with VLog_to_V709_ForDVX200_ver100:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLBs1llpibs
After applying the LUT, I set Saturation to 1.4 and Contrast to 1.25. A little gamma adjusting here and there. I shot with the safety margins at 2.39:1 so that I could export out at 2.39:1.
In my experience, V-Log is great outdoors, but I've had some issues with banding and such. Check out the banding in the blue sky at 0:42 and 1:12 above. Also, check out the walls in this video review I shot in V-Log (for kicks): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Me0lg2ANNw
The banding is disappointing, and no LUT or Look I've found will fix it. I shot V-Log for a few sunset clips at a wedding, and the sunset was heavily banded. A client not savvy with video might not notice it, but I sure do.
FYI, I downloaded the DVX200 LUT here:
http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/products/ag-dvx200/exp.html
I don't do much with looks...I usually strive for an image that looks just like I remember in real life.
Banding is a compression artifact. Both color space compression (4:2:0 is particularly bad for this), and H.264 AVC compression which tends to macro block subtle variations changes in value into single values areas. High bitrate 4:2:2 codecs above 50Mbps in HD and above 100Mbps in 4k don't band nearly as much, even in 8-bit, though 10 bit is obviously better. Log value compression makes it worse too when you expand the value range for normal contrast.
GeorgeAbbottClark
Member
This is for Barry and our group. I used Color Finale and followed their instructions for for the Rec. 709 for the DVX 200. But their link is to the V35 709 on the Panasonic website. I got their free trial and shot some VLogL 8 bit internal and applied the V35 in FCPX. Looked fine. But Barry has said the 709 and LUTs for the GH4 are not exactly tweaked for the DVX 200 (is that right, Barry?) So, I used the link Ed gives here for the DVX 200 and indeed it goes tot he Panasonic website for a 709 that is claims is for the DVX 200. I imported that and applied it to the footage and that looks fine. Barry are they really different 709s or just labeled fro us, And si there a difference? Lastly, I want to use the DVX200 a B camera for the Varicam 35 Or the LT) possibly in August. To pair the camera which 709 should be used in post in FCPX? I assume it would be the V35 applied to both DVX 200 and the V35. Or, each 709 downloaded from the Panasonic website one ambled for the DVX 200 and the other for the V35. I am also looking for LUTs for film looks that I can use with FCPX maybe in Color Finale and I have just queried Denver there about all of this. Let's see what Barry and Denver suggest. Also, Barry I am trying to find your 18 custom looks for the DVX 200 you mentioned ion YouTube and have scoured Google and the Panasonic website and come up empty. can you provide guidable where to find them. I loved the extra looks you gave us for the HPX 250. Some cool stuff and hope I get some for the 200.
This is for Barry and our group. I used Color Finale and followed their instructions for for the Rec. 709 for the DVX 200. But their link is to the V35 709 on the Panasonic website. I got their free trial and shot some VLogL 8 bit internal and applied the V35 in FCPX. Looked fine. But Barry has said the 709 and LUTs for the GH4 are not exactly tweaked for the DVX 200 (is that right, Barry?) So, I used the link Ed gives here for the DVX 200 and indeed it goes tot he Panasonic website for a 709 that is claims is for the DVX 200. I imported that and applied it to the footage and that looks fine. Barry are they really different 709s or just labeled fro us, And si there a difference? Lastly, I want to use the DVX200 a B camera for the Varicam 35 Or the LT) possibly in August. To pair the camera which 709 should be used in post in FCPX? I assume it would be the V35 applied to both DVX 200 and the V35. Or, each 709 downloaded from the Panasonic website one ambled for the DVX 200 and the other for the V35. I am also looking for LUTs for film looks that I can use with FCPX maybe in Color Finale and I have just queried Denver there about all of this. Let's see what Barry and Denver suggest. Also, Barry I am trying to find your 18 custom looks for the DVX 200 you mentioned ion YouTube and have scoured Google and the Panasonic website and come up empty. can you provide guidable where to find them. I loved the extra looks you gave us for the HPX 250. Some cool stuff and hope I get some for the 200.
In my experience, the V35 and DVX200 709 LUTs are exactly the same. I flip between the two with no noticeable difference. I use DVX200 for peace of mind that I'm getting the right image, but I don't think it really matters.
Whether or not the V35 LUT helps match to a real Varicam 35, I cannot say.
GeorgeAbbottClark
Member
Ed, thanks. I assume this could be the case. I'm not a big color guy. My focus as an editor is story and viz, and I do some primary and secondary, but otherwise hand it off to a Resolve type pro once it's locked. But we need proper clarification from Barry/Panasonic to be sure, so there are no surprises. Why label one for the 200 and the other V35? I also need guidance on what LUTs to use for the DVX 200 as the B camera to the Varicam 35. 709s and other film LUT looks. So far, I have not been able to find out and have asked Panasonic twice, with no response. Last week I even asked a Panasonic rep at Cinegear who was stumped, and he said he would get back to me too my biz card and never got back to me. So, Barry, or someone who knows for sure, could you help us out here? Much appreciated.
cookinghusband
Well-known member
Search this forum, Barry and others have talk about this topic quite a few times already in the last 6 months
you can start here ? http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?344882-Experimenting-with-DVX200-Color
you can start here ? http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?344882-Experimenting-with-DVX200-Color
GeorgeAbbottClark
Member
On page 86 of Barry's DVX 200 (great) book he says the distribution of shades of gray is the same in VLoG-L as it is in the full fledged VLOG. As a result "it gives you access to using the same LUTs that the Varicam can use." Clear so far, but on 95 he says "For the most accurate tones, ideally you'd want to use a LUT designed specifically for the DVX200 to produce accurate color and tone. Built in LUTS found on external devices so far stating Panasonic 709 ARE NOT ACCURATE FOR THE DVX200. He says Panasonic offers downloadable V709 LUT for the DVX200 which is actually the Varicam LUT designed to render a stylized V709 color palette. This is not a Rec. 709 but specially built for the Varican called V709. Panasonic's own LUT is not designed for the DVX200 (so, is the one labeled for the 200 on their website really for the 200? or a re-labled Varicam 35 LUT??) for downloading and gets it "in the ball park. In the end Baryy says to search for more recent appropriate LUTs before settling for using a Varicam or GH4LUt with the DVX200. So... I am asking around OSIRIS, COLOR FINALE, etc. - "Are there and true DVX200 LUTs out there yet? And which should I use to match the 200 with the Varicam for 709 broadcast and film looks?" I presume they are coming. And if anyone can steer us, please do!