Color Correction Gone Wild! AE7.0

cardmaverick

cardmaverick

Well-known member
These are some HD screen shots showing just how powerful After Effects 7.0 is for color correction. I'll take AE over FCP or Avid color correctors any day.... The raw footage shots are the light washed out looking ones (exposed to the right). The cardmaverick (me) was shot with an M2 and Nikon 50mm prime. The flowers are just stock lens. Video clip coming soon.

EDIT:

HD clip (sorenson 3 codec) about 200 MB

http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/HUGE.mov

I suggest right click save as.... Probably will play faster off your hard drive anyways.

Wild Flowers

RAW
http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/Untitled-4.jpg

http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/Untitled-1.jpg
http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/Untitled-2.jpg
http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/Untitled-3.jpg

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Cardmaverick

RAW
http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/Untitled-8.jpg

http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/Untitled-5.jpg
http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/Untitled-6.jpg
http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/Untitled-7.jpg
 
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Yes, I'm working on it...been really busy with a varicam shoot that is in danger of being downsized to HVX (I'm not knocking the HVX at all, but common, its cool to work with big cameras man!):violin: Budget issues, *sigh*. Back on topic. I have a question, would anyone be willing to put up with an HD sorenson 3 version of the footage at about 200 MB? I can make several sizes, but man, that boatload file looks awesome. Hopefully I can get them up tonight.
 
Chris,
I'd download the 200mb file.
I just did a test shoot last night with my friend and boy did we have the camera settings wrong. alot of grain. Its so hard to jude from the lcd what the settings are doing to the image. Next up is doing some test and just messing with the settings.
Thanks again for working on these tutorials. I'm excited to learn from you.
Luis.
 
siniarch, what camera did you use? What was the pedestal setting? Lots of variables. Also, you really need to light carefully for this technique to really work well without too much grain showing up. What did you use for posting? Make sure your gain is set as low as it can go. Also keep in mind this, every approach is a comprimise. I know how to shoot this way and make the results look pretty darn good, but I've been doing this for a while... Post some raw and edited screen grabs if you can.
 
Hey Chris,
Thanks, I'll get the info on the camera settings once my friend comes by. It was an HVX w/ stock lens. As I said, we were just test shooting. I wasn't trying to light how you do. (not yet anyway. I would definitely need to learn more)
I have an HVX w/ M2, so I can only imagine I'm going to need even more light than we used last night. It was a pretty complicated shot, but it was so much fun trying to get it to work. We had a 4bank Kinoflo, a 2bank Kinoflo, a 300watt china ball, some 50w stop bulbs (home depot for landscape lights), and I'm sure we could have use some more lights. Also access to the neighbor's building would have made things a lot easier. we were just trying it out at my friends apartment bldg. and were not even sure if we were going to get in trouble.
I'll post some footage later.
Thanks,
Luis
 
What do you think of the HD footage? This shooting technique has prove to be a bit controversial around here, but if you watch that clip, especially the one I lit (the wild flowers are all natural light) I think the results were actaully quite good and very minimal on noise. You certainly can't doubt the post flexibilty the approach can offer with an HVX being use. This technique really hits its stride in RAW formats. But when shooting on a compressed format, one thing is for sure, each approach has its place. In fact, if my varicam shoot is downsized to HVX, I'm probably going to do a 180 and try nailing most of the look in camera becaue the director wants the cleanest image he can get. I still have this phobia of in camea crushing though...once you go down, the noise that results from any post work is about 10 times worse than going down from a lighter flater exposure. Try it yourself, the more you crush, the smaller your post options will become, and that kinda scares me...
 
Hi Chris. Your user name suits you, nice card control.:D I agree with your approach, though some would not. I have a feature in the works, and a lot of the scenes are set in a very dark setting. Careful lighting and HVX settings are still being tested, with a view to post grading/timing and shooting lighter and flat to P2. I have been experimenting with Cine-V preset, changing that to B.Press and Low Knee. Lighting and further camera tweaks are required on a shot by shot basis. DP will do actual tests with me soon. My own testing has lacked in the lighting choices/setups. I am also lacking ideal monitoring (DV Rack and Dell 2405). Implementing either the Panasonic BT-LH2600 or the JVC DT-V24L1DU are still under review for on set and post use.

I would be interested to learn what your HVX settings were for the Cardmaverick shot (if you wish to share)?

I was hoping to shoot our feature to HVX with the upcoming HVX/Hydra, however, now learned that proposed product beta/release may not likely fit our own proposed shooting schedule. I am now concerned, dealing with lighting and post for these darker scenes. This thread canvassed some of what you raised herein. I look forward to discovering how to get the most out of the HVX for various setups.
 
You have renewed my interest in using Cine-D. Blown out highlights and the noise I suffered from some previous tests pushed me toward B.Press and Low Knee. I had not contemplated shooting with Master Pedestal at +15, etc. More experimenting to follow.

I agree that AE will provide greater control for post CC. We had previously used DF for compositing and CC work. Now we are building a new tower and will opt for the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Production Premium, together with Colorista in AE CS3 and/or PP CS3. It will be interesting to compare the results of the various HVX settings and we will see what our DP suggests in due course.

Chris, thanks for directing me to your other thread. I missed that one, yet did see the Expose for the Edit. Cool stuff man. :thumbsup:
 
Thanks, I did read that thread from a few months back. I noticed that no one ever suggested changing their lighitng approach. I think thats the big key, light for how much dynamic range you actually have AFTER the posting.... And its extremely important that you light using a Spot meter, not an incident. Thats why this approach is probably giving some people trouble. I highly encourage using spot meters. As for post specifics, I'm gonna hold onto those till I open the website I'm making... PM if you want some more help there.
 
cardmaverick said:
....light for how much dynamic range you actually have AFTER the posting.... And its extremely important that you light using a Spot meter, not an incident.
Click to expand...
3.45am, my brain is not cognizant enough at the moment to interpret the first sentence quoted. Would you kindly break that down a little for me please Chris?

I have a Spot/Incident meter. As a Brevis user, I have not been sure what ASA to set the meter. I have been playing with 125 or 160 ASA, from memory, at 24fps (shooting 1080pA24). Factoring in your M2 use, what are you punching in for a value? The DV Rack waveform monitor is great.

Thanks for the help Chris. This is very relevant and starting to make sense, especially for our darker and low light scenes (well, after they are then CC).
 
Christopher,

Basically it means this, the different shades of gray (levels of brightness) in the image will be reduced after the posting. Take any black and white image and crank up the contrast. What you are really doing is decreasing the images dynamic range. The greater the range, the more seperate and distinct shades of gray you can have. By taking into account what your footage's END dynamic range is, and lighting for that range, you wind up with a better product, ie, highligts that aren't totally blown out. In the end, depedning on the image you wan't, your range coud be around 4-5 stops. This concept holds true even when working in RAW, which ist a 1:1 capture of natures dynamic range, even though you might have like 9 stops of range coming straight off of the HVX's sensors using say a Hyrda, you still have to factor in post contrast and curves adjustments, which, if you shoot a gray scale, you will see reduces your END dynamic range. How much simply has to do with how you post.

The spot meter lets you know how contrasty the scene is, and thats what you need to pay close attention to. It will tell you if you're scene is lit outside your end products range. Incident meters don't give you that kind of info.

Hope that helps!
 
cardmaverick said:
...By taking into account what your footage's END dynamic range is, and lighting for that range, you wind up with a better product, ie, highlights that aren't totally blown out...
Click to expand...
Chris, that is what I (and DP) have to eventually work out, so as to setup the lights and HVX at optimal level for post. Your Cardmaverick shot is indicative of the kind of scenes I will be confronted with in our proposed feature, namely, quite dark surroundings and low light (result). I agree that shooting the HVX with in-camera settings can produce great results, however, leaves little room for correction in post, due to the increased macroblocking and banding, indicative of these low luminance levels, couple with the DVCProHD compression. The macroblocking and banding can be removed by increasing the Master Pedestal to, say, -7 to -15, at the cost of crushing the blacks and leaving no detail. That is why I also shoot 1080pA24, to get that little extra out of the resolution and also the compression applied has better results, highlighted by a study Jim Arthurs conducted and some further observations by Barry Green. If I had Hydra for the feature, I would feel a lot more comfortable shooting these dark scenes. Since it is likely that we are going to end up shooting to P2 only, I have been gravely concerned about how to get the best footage to post.

You showed us a good example initially with your RAW tests via the D70 digital SLR of how to Expose for the Edit, which did not factor DVCProHD compression. Subsequently, you followed up with the Lighting Tutorial, disclosing HVX settings, lighting, etc. IMO, I think you have presented an impressive alternative HVX shooting method with low light areas in a scene, with low level of noise recorded, whilst retaining a lot of detail for those of us who want to have maximum to work with in post.

For me, I just need to do some tests now and work out the right lighting and actual HVX settings to Expose for the Edit. I'll start with your settings posted previously.

What ASA is your spot meter set to for HXV/M2 use?

Did you use any other filters in AE, besides Curves and Color Balance? I thought one of the warmer CC passes had a slight glow to it? You didn't use AE noise/grain removal filter or other?

Thanks again for going through this Chris. This thread affirms what I believed as my likely approach. I just need to now find that lighting and optimal HVX settings to suit my desired outcome in post. :thumbsup:
 
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I can't really remember my ISO rating actually, I think it was like 50 or something absurd. I usually close my HVX f/stop up to like 2.8 or 3 for better ground glass focus.

As for AE settings, ZERO GRAIN REMOVAL. just so people don't think I did....

I'm an advanced AE color corrector of sorts, and I haven't said everything I do yet, which I think I stated earlier on the board sometime. I will say this much, (I'm saving for my sites tutorials), I did use some selective controls on the image. Yes there is a glowing effect on two shots, but only in the highlights. I added it on purpose, its also used on the flower petals in two shots. This is an advanced CC technique, but it can also be used for other things, like selectively adjusting someones cheek or mayb just the sky's color/brightness. And no, its not power masking, thats an older thing I did back in the day, I'm way better now. PM if you want some more details, as this tutorial is gonna be killer, I really want to save it for the site.

:)
 
Thanks for the reply Chris. I look forward to seeing the AE tutorials on your website. I'll PM you in due course, to share some of my own observations and tests in the coming weeks/months.
 
Everything I used was built in AE 7.0 stuff. No color finess was used. I've dabbled with it, but never really gotten into it, course, that was an older version, so I might be more content with it now. The real CC control in AE lies in the programs nesting ablities, multiple effects on layers, adjustment layers, etc...
 
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