Paul Hudson
Vacuum Tube Member
This is why I don't like buying cameras vs. renting them for a production. Rental houses demand equipment insurance by the production. It seems if you come with your own camera said:
Client won't sign contract
- Thread starter pulp
- Start date
Paul Hudson
Vacuum Tube Member
This is exactly why when someone hires me, they hire me alone. The equipment is negotiated completely separately from my services.
I totally agree with you, but you'd be awfully surprised how slim their contract and requirements were.
"THIS Agreement (the “Agreement”) is made and entered into this 4th day of February, 2012 by and between (me) ("Vendor") and (them) ("Customer").
- BASIC PROVISIONS.
- Vendor shall provide Customer with the following products & services on (date) at (event):
- Take High definition video footage of the event including but not limited to the obstacle run, venue area, the live band, showers, food, beer drinking, mechanical bull, dunk booth, camping, and the fireworks at night. There needs to be background music to the video that motivates runners.
- Edited high definition video footages of the event so customer can put the video on youtube, vimeo, and the website. Vendor shall help upload the videos on these websites. Completed edited video footages should be provided no later than (date)
- Vendor shall provide Customer with the following products & services on (date) at (event):
- Liability.
- Vendor is responsible for the equipment. It is the vendor’s responsibility to pay for damages if there are technical difficulties for his equipment.
That's the ENTIRE contract, short of "payment" (when they'll pay and how much), and "contact information," which simply lists my name, number, and email and their name, number, and email.
Judging from how little is in their contract, they're either incredible ignorant or well aware that they should stay away from all claims of liability and responsibility.
Either way, that contact seems rather eerie in it's slimness compared to how high-risk that event could be.
Also, they wanted me there for 2 hours but wanted all that footage?
- Vendor is responsible for the equipment. It is the vendor’s responsibility to pay for damages if there are technical difficulties for his equipment.
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Show the payment clause with the number redacted. I am looking for certain language.
"Video Services
THIS Agreement (the “Agreement”) is made and entered into this 4th day of February, 2012 by and between(me) ("Vendor") and (them) ("Customer").
- BASIC PROVISIONS.
- Vendor shall provide Customer with the following products & services on 10/27/12 at (event)
- Take High definition video footage of the event including but not limited to the obstacle run, venue area, the live band, showers, food, beer drinking, mechanical bull, dunk booth, camping, and the fireworks at night. There needs to be background music to the video that motivates runners.
- Edited high definition video footages of the event so customer can put the video on youtube, vimeo, and the website. Vendor shall help upload the videos on these websites. Completed edited video footages should be provided no later than 10/30/12
- Vendor shall provide Customer with the following products & services on 10/27/12 at (event)
- Liability.
- Vendor is responsible for the equipment. It is the vendor’s responsibility to pay for damages if there are technical difficulties for his equipment.
- Payment.
- Customer shall pay Vendor a total of two hundred fifty dollars for these services ($250) due in 3 increments on the following dates:
- 2/9/12 : (3/10 of total)
- 10/27/12 : (3/10 of total)
- 11/5/12 : (2/5 of total)
- Customer shall pay Vendor a total of two hundred fifty dollars for these services ($250) due in 3 increments on the following dates:
- Contact Information.
- Vendor can be contacted at (info)
- Customer can be contacted (info)
Vendor: (me)
By:
[signature]
Name: _________________________________________
Customer: (name)
By:
[signature]
Print Name:_________________________________________"
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Okay, it's a contract that has way too many holes.
But this line is the clincher:
To be in good standing with the contract, you must be able to provide ALL of those areas on camera. If your gear goes down, and you don't have footage from those areas in HD.....you are in violation of the contract. Meaning "no pay". So have a back up plan if you are going to take this job. Or get some inexpensive cameras that can shoot HD. Tell them, if they cannot provide the rider on the insurance as is customary, you cannot use high end equipment.
But you are right the money, that long in the future would not be worth it to me.
But this line is the clincher:
To be in good standing with the contract, you must be able to provide ALL of those areas on camera. If your gear goes down, and you don't have footage from those areas in HD.....you are in violation of the contract. Meaning "no pay". So have a back up plan if you are going to take this job. Or get some inexpensive cameras that can shoot HD. Tell them, if they cannot provide the rider on the insurance as is customary, you cannot use high end equipment.
But you are right the money, that long in the future would not be worth it to me.
I found it odd that they felt it necessary to offer deferred payment when the shoots weren't 6 and 10 months, respectively. The first part of payment started immediately, and ended shortly after the event itself. What's the purpose, other than to secure my services for those dates (honestly, over 6-10 months, my rate could easily raise, so I guess giving me a small deposit could be one way to keep me from asking for more, but that's pretty silly if the rate is in writing).
Kit Hannah
Veteran
What kind of footage do they want from the "showers"? LOL
$250 is not a good day rate for labor for a boring, basic one off gig. Especially with the camera rental. Tell them it's $250 without your camera, let them go rent their own for you to trash. That or get a GoPro or something that will take the abuse and shoots HD.
$250 is not a good day rate for labor for a boring, basic one off gig. Especially with the camera rental. Tell them it's $250 without your camera, let them go rent their own for you to trash. That or get a GoPro or something that will take the abuse and shoots HD.
c'mon guy, this is a just a scam, and the worse is even the customer ignore that.
You (or they )really think you can shoot all of this in 2 hours ? (or so, you will need to be at different places at same time). Obviously it is at least 5 hours of presence, not counting the editing (10 hours). So at $250 , you are working at $16/hours, not even counting equipement rental, gasoline to go there, meal and drinks.
And they want background music and youtube/vimeo ? usually they do not mix well.
and "including but not limited ", so expect the list to grow , when suddenly they ask you to come the day before or early in the morning to shoot the
installation, and stay after fireworks late in the night to shoot don't know what.... (so you get a 15 hours workday)
and deffered payment for $250 while the thing obviously needs thousands to be organized (fireworks, live band, camping ?), believe me , run out of this as fast as you can,
just go there for fun.
anyone serious woud ask a minimum of $1000 to start discussion....
You (or they )really think you can shoot all of this in 2 hours ? (or so, you will need to be at different places at same time). Obviously it is at least 5 hours of presence, not counting the editing (10 hours). So at $250 , you are working at $16/hours, not even counting equipement rental, gasoline to go there, meal and drinks.
And they want background music and youtube/vimeo ? usually they do not mix well.
and "including but not limited ", so expect the list to grow , when suddenly they ask you to come the day before or early in the morning to shoot the
installation, and stay after fireworks late in the night to shoot don't know what.... (so you get a 15 hours workday)
and deffered payment for $250 while the thing obviously needs thousands to be organized (fireworks, live band, camping ?), believe me , run out of this as fast as you can,
just go there for fun.
anyone serious woud ask a minimum of $1000 to start discussion....
Last edited:
Yeah. So poor they can't afford $250 until months after the shoot? Please.
MPB
Well-known member
who knows, maybe it's for a worthy cause. sometimes work is work. the pay isn't really what was being discussed here, but it does speak to a larger point. pulp, obviously your question wasn't at all stupid. most of us would like to be flexible and accomodate the requests of our clients. but if something really bothers you about a job, it's good to know where to draw the line. it's your business and your equipment.
josh-ozirigpro
Active member
My rule is; if you get paid, I get paid!
This job sounds like it's way too much of a pain in the ass for $250.
Unless things are so tight for you that you're living on instant noodles, why are you hiring yourself AND your equipment at such a horrible price?
If you still wanna go with it, get the deferred payment clause stricken out and get a rider on their insurance.
If they "can't" or "won't", call the deal off as any damage to yourself or your equipment will cost you a whole lot more than $250.
As nosys said, expect that list to grow (but not your payment!).
MPB
Well-known member
that's another question entirely, Mr. Huff. my point was simply that it isn't a question of how much you or i might want to be paid. there are any number of reasons it might be a worthwhile gig to someone else. that's a separate issue from the insurance and liability matter.
Mike Harvey
Veteran
So these guys are going to get a bunch of folks really drunk and make them race an obsticle course, and are going to only pay you $250 to get the *entire* event and have the whole thing turned around and finished in three days, and not provide any sort of coverage in case your gear is damaged working their event?
To quote the Monty Python clip, "Run away!"
Seriously, this whole thing doesn't seem particularly well thought out [edit: on the potential client's part]. Even if it's successfull, it's still not going to really turn out well for you, since it isn't a lot of money, and I doubt any future gigs from these folks will be any better paying.
Last edited:
djosbun
Active member
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but if this is a one-day shoot, what happens if they do not pay you after the initial first installment? Is it even worth chasing the client down for the remainder of what is owed? You shot it and gave them the clips, and you have only the first installment payment. What is them forcing them to pay you the remainder, since it seems sketchy to begin with?
Just a thought.......
BTW- i'm not a pro, by any means, but found this thread to be highly informative. Thanks to those that gave their input since I learned a ton!
Dave
Just a thought.......
BTW- i'm not a pro, by any means, but found this thread to be highly informative. Thanks to those that gave their input since I learned a ton!
Dave
Kegan
Spam Assassin Mod
General practice is to withhold clips until they pay the remaining portion. Since you've already kind of given them the only thing of value, they have no incentive to pay you. I'd still make an attempt to get your money back, but know that the chances are slim to none.
Kegan
Kegan