Clean, Clear Slow Motion?

V

videoav

Well-known member
What's the best settings to use on the camera if you want to have a nice clear slow motion in post.
 
There are other ways to get good clean slow mo as well in 24P. I use REvisions Twixtor. Its a AE plugin that actually creates additional information to produce clean and clear slowmo. I swear by it. I produce weddings and slowmo is a necesity. The plugin is a bit pricey, confusing to learn, and has sucky render times, but the results are worth it. here's some examples.

plugin link - http://www.revisionfx.com/rstwixtor.htm

http://catchthemoment.net/Gallery/Tiffany & Rusty/tifwed.htm

11.8 MB (video doesnt seem like its downloading but it is, i forgot to do a fast start when I encoded it.)

http://catchthemoment.net/dvmovie.html
(same story, video doesnt seem like its downloading but it is.
 
I heard there is some application that blends the frames...

I know user named Ben Winter on dvinfo uses it for clean slo-mo. I forget the name though
 
To Gary: I use Vegas as well, and Twixtor is strictly After Effects, I believe. At least, you cannot use it in Vegas.


I am getting Twixtor in about a week.


And this thread should not be in this section. Just a heads up.
 
What about the overal 24p look? If you shoot 60i (or video look)
and slow it down, will it not look like videoish...but at a slower speed?

How do you retain the "filmic" look and slow it down?
Thanks,
Adrian
 
60i is "videoish"...little known fact a cinematographer once shot using a film camera at 30fps. everyone who saw the footage said it looked to much like video. so why shoot 60i and try to make "filmic"???

if you shot 24p then use twixtor, motion perfect, or any other suitable application or better yet get a variable rate camera.
 
a2zproductions said:
What about the overal 24p look? If you shoot 60i (or video look)
and slow it down, will it not look like videoish...but at a slower speed?

How do you retain the "filmic" look and slow it down?
Thanks,
Adrian
Click to expand...

the big reason 60i looks so "video-ish" is because it captures too much action. the motion is too lifelike and not dramatic/filmic like 24fps. you can get the film look out of 60i but there are some steps you must take and by doing this you will lose some resolution so plan for that. there are plugins that will automate this process but i will give you the step by step. you must take your 60i footage and deinterlace it. this means taking each of the 60 fields per second and turning each one into a full progressive frame. this is where you lose your resolution as each field is only half of the horizontal lines in the frame. once you have deinterlaced, you then have a clip that is twice as long as the original (if you use every field, not just odd or even) since you took 60 fields and turned them into 60 full frames. so in other words the 60 fields that used to make up one second now make up two seconds. so now that you have a 30p clip you must conform the timecode from 30fps to 24fps. once this is done you will be able to drop the clip onto a 24fps timeline and you will have perfect smooth slow motion at 40% of the original speed and it looks as much like film as the rest of your 24p footage shot on the dvx.

if you are on a mac, you can use JES deinterlacer (free) to deinterlace, and cinema tools (not free) to conform the timecode.

here's an example. this was shot at 60i. at first you will see what happens if you simply drop 60i footage on a 24fps timeline and slow down to 40%, jumpy. then you will see the same shot using the method above, smooth. then a side by side comparison of the two methods.


http://media.putfile.com/tennis-ball-slo-mo-test
 
Ok, my question is which temple is that? Looks like a small one like Monticello, but I can't place that one. Nice wedding vid by the way. :D I just shot one this Thursday up in Salt Lake. I use Twixtor as well. Only way to get decent slow motion on 24P footage.
 
How do you people do when you mix slow motion shots (interlaced) with progressive shots?

I tested this today.
I shot two clips with my DVX (PAL). I shot one clip in 50i with a 1/120 shutter speed and one clip in 25p. Then I imported them both into a progressive project (No fields) with a 25fps timeline. I slowed down the interlaced footage to 50% and left the progressive footage as it was. Then I exported the two clips with No fields, and I did not deinterlace anything. The slow motion footage looked awful, or should I say extremely jumpy? The progressive footage looked nice of course.

Then I imported my two clips into an interlaced project with a 25fps timeline and did the same thing. Slowed down the 50i clip to 50% and left the progressive footage alone. I then exported the timeline again, but this time with Lower field first. Notice I did not deinterlace anything this time either. Both clips turned out fine anyway. How come I don't have to deinterlace? And when I export with Lower field first, does that affect the progressive footage at all?

So, when I export for the web or the computer I guess I should export with Lower field first even if I have progressive footage in there?
But how do you people do when you want to burn a progressive DVD with some slow motion shots? If I burn progressive, will the slow motion footage be affected the same way as when I exported with No fields?
 
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Norbert said:
How do you people do when you mix slow motion shots (interlaced) with progressive shots?

I tested this today.
I shot two clips with my DVX (PAL). I shot one clip in 50i with a 1/120 shutter speed and one clip in 25p. Then I imported them both into a progressive project (No fields) with a 25fps timeline. I slowed down the interlaced footage to 50% and left the progressive footage as it was. Then I exported the two clips with No fields, and I did not deinterlace anything. The slow motion footage looked awful, or should I say extremely jumpy? The progressive footage looked nice of course.

Then I imported my two clips into an interlaced project with a 25fps timeline and did the same thing. Slowed down the 50i clip to 50% and left the progressive footage alone. I then exported the timeline again, but this time with Lower field first. Notice I did not deinterlace anything this time either. Both clips turned out fine anyway. How come I don't have to deinterlace? And when I export with Lower field first, does that affect the progressive footage at all?

So, when I export for the web or the computer I guess I should export with Lower field first even if I have progressive footage in there?
But how do you people do when you want to burn a progressive DVD with some slow motion shots? If I burn progressive, will the slow motion footage be affected the same was as when I exported with No fields?
Click to expand...


What you did isn't correct. The reason for shooting 60i or 50i in your case is so that you can readjust the frame rate of the footage. If your using FCP, then just slowing it down in the program does nothing but throw frames(or fields) away and creates really horrid motion problems. You need to conform the DV file to a new frame rate. If your on a mac, this can be done using Cinema Tools, just open in Cinema tools and conform the project file to 24FPS.

What you may need to do first is take your 50i file and export it to a 50p file first, the cinema tools route my not work precisely as I suggested if it is interlaced.
 
Loki said:
What you may need to do first is take your 50i file and export it to a 50p file first, the cinema tools route my not work precisely as I suggested if it is interlaced.
Click to expand...
So just slowing the footage down and interpreting it to 25fps is not enough? The problem is I'm on a PC, using Premiere. Wouldn't exporting the footage to 50p and then bringing it back into the NLE result in a quality loss? Isn't there any way of doing this without having to export the slow motion footage before using it? Premiere is by the way unable to export to 50fps.
Why would I need Cinema Tools, btw? Once I have a 50p footage I can just slow it down to 50% to get 25fps. Done. I don't find it necessary to conform 25p to 24p since the PAL version of the DVX shoot 25fps in the progressive mode. Have I missed something?
 
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dcsimpson said:
There are other ways to get good clean slow mo as well in 24P. I use REvisions Twixtor.
Click to expand...

Why does it seem that stepping up to better equipment and software leads to more complications and difficulties rather than the opposite. I used to use a very cheap 1CCD cam and edit in Pinnacle Studio 7. I was able to do slow-mo with quite clean results. Recently I shot a wedding using the DVX100A for the first time ever (first time using a 3CCD cam as well). I shot it in 24p. To excuse myself a bit, I rented the cam the night before the wedding so I didn't have much time to play with it, read forums and become a near-perfect user. I chose 24p because I wanted that "movie-like" look. Anyway, I dropped the footage onto a 24p timeline in Premiere Pro. Now in looking at some of the slow-mo scenes, they are jerky. Again, this only occurred in some of the scenes. The ones that are jerky were slowed to 40%, but there are scenes on other 24p timelines that were also slowed to 40% and look just fine.

Is there any way to fix this without immediately buying more software? I don't have AE yet. Thanks ...
 
24p has 2:3 pull down frames that the eye can't see at 29.97, but when slowed down become apparent. I shoot anything I want to slow down at 30p or 60i.

The trouble you have is that on location (weddings) you are often not sure what you will want to slow down. If in doubt, I would shoot that footage at 30p. It's a decent compromise.
 
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