Cinevate dolly vs Panther Husky vs Losmandy Spider Dolly (or others)

A

Avenger007

Well-known member
Its time to dump the heavy duty stuff and go with something more mobile and easier to setup.

Cinevate's Dolly looks like a nice piece but it lacks a low rig similar to losmandy's with the variable columns and some other accessories (like the pivoting head mount). So, has anyone used it extensively?

Pros:
-wheels pivot and tilt for variances in track
-comes with plates
-Handle can be placed on any side

Cons:
-No pneumatic wheels or studio wheels

Questions:
-How sturdy and smooth?
-Is the center column capable of handling 30+ lbs.
-Is seat adjustable enough for operation close and far from center?
-How strong is the seat and low rig mechanism bolted to the center post?
-Can it fit through a doorway or have the legs adapted for shorter lengths?
-Can it handle a large jib (at least 12ft or maybe up to 18ft?)
-Can the center column support a large jib?

Panther Husky

Pros:
-Various wheel options and storage onto the unit
-western style platform that can fold
-A lot of accessories in panther fashion
-great build
-folds for easy mobility

Cons:
-Can't adapt to various track sizes and spacing
-Price

Spider Dolly

Pros:
-Pivoting wheels
-plates available
-good accessories

Cons:
-Price versus similar cinevate package and price of accessories
-Rated for only 400lb (but seems to take more well)
-Heavy

I currently own a losmandy spider but I have to send it off to a new shoot and need a second unit. I'd like to try the cinevate but I really would like to be able to have the versatility similar to losmandy's low rig and option of bolting the head right onto the base plate and running a mini leg version.
 
We use the Ballare dolly all the time and love it. Its very sturdy and can support up to 100lbs I believe. We will be using it with our RED setup. The seat is very comfortable and can be set anywhere on the platform. It has a low mode with a short arm and a longer arm for closer to the ground shots. You do have to watch it doesn't tip the unit over when no one is on it with the long arm. You just have to prop it up with something when your done. I love that it breaks down into something you can throw in a suitcase which is where ours stays. The pivoting wheels really do come in handy. It will support a large jib with no problem. The center mast is a monster.

Here are some BTS of it in action on our last music video shoot.
http://mikeks.smugmug.com/Production shots/628760
 
Thanks for the info. I've seen those shots before. It looks very promising. I've ruled out the Panther due to the price difference since I'd like to add a PS Technik skater dolly as well to this package. The Panther starts in the $6500 range before adding accessories in case anyone is wondering.

Are the wheels on the Ballare large enough to support heavy objects and weight shifts? Also, I wonder if the bolts could be replaced with thumb screws or knobs for faster removal for the plates primarily.

Any other dollys that someone can suggest?
 
Av, we do have a video going over the system here: http://www.cinevate.com/website/index.php/videouniversity It's called the "Ballare Dolly Overview"

The dolly uses stainless steel fasteners (not cheap, but good!) and the decking versions are shipped with stainless wingnuts. The unit can be broken down, including the mast, with no tools. We've had really great response to the unit from the folks beating it up in the field :-)

With regard to your weight questions, the dolly has no problem with 600lbs ( 3 riders) if required. All of the moving points use stainless bearings x 2....so it's essentially over-engineered. We haven't explored the breaking point, but it would likely occur with a load well over 1000lbs.


Cheers,
 
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Dennis,
Thanks for the info. Can a head be mounted right to the center of the dolly without a high-hat or column?

I've been a fan of the Ballare since it was in the initial planning stages (coming from a current losmandy owner too). I like the porta-spider system but its heavy and seeing the weight ratings of the Ballare makes it attractive.

Also, the losmandy is $700 more when loaded with the same features and still lacks a "jib" feature unless you actually use a full jib add-on. I think I'm going to also go with the new matthews Red Dolly. Very great piece of equipment in case anyone hasn't seen it. It starts at $2400 and has a lot of accessories. A great compliment to a spider dolly like the Ballare.

Dennis, is there any plans for a studio or pneumatic wheel kit? Also, is there a low rig kit in the works that is more column based?
 
Dennis,

The Ballare looks good. You'll do a great job in creating products.

Question: On your website you have the Ballare Dolly 100mm Bowl/Mast at $775.00 but it has a picture o fthe whole unit. Then you have Cinevate Ballare Dolly at $775.00 with a picture of the whole unit. Just to make it clear, you need to buy both in order to have the dolly system + tower, correct?

Also, have you guys ever thought about a combo deal? Like Buy the tower, base dolly, 4 couplers and the seat for $1800 instead of Approx $2050? Just asking... :-)
 
I am working on an article about grip gear and I had a chance to go to Matthews and play around with their new RED dolly. It is a pretty amazing piece of gear and is much more versatile than any dolly I have seen short of a Fisher. Problem is that you cannot buy a Fisher and if you could, they still weigh 400 to 700lbs when loaded up with accessories. So you need a cube van with a lift gate, etc.

The RED can be used with anything from a Canon HV-30 to a Panavision Film camera. If you check out the demo on their website, the RED dolly is also capable of doing some pretty unique moves because of the way that the wheels lock and unlock. It weighs a mere 113 lbs and can easily fit in a trunk, van or pickup. It can be teamed with skate wheels for use on regular dolly track as well. They have a platform available as well if you want to set your jib on it.

Very impressive product and B&H has it for under $2,400.00. Also the step off platform in the middle of the dolly for Steadicam operators to do combo moves is impressive and the fact that dolly is also rigged for outlets for grip and lighting on board is pretty cool.

A very smart product. http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=article&cat=11&ID=278 P.S. I don't work for Matthews, just interviewed them and they showed me this product and I was instantly smitten with wanting one. It seems ideal for just about any situation short of tabletop and I already have a tabletop dolly.

Dan
 
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I agree, I put one on order and can't wait to start using it. I think it compliments a spider dolly quite well. My main goal is getting a bungee cam setup constructed for quick handheld work.
 
puredrifting said:
I am working on an article about grip gear and I had a chance to go to Matthews and play around with their new RED dolly. It is a pretty amazing piece of gear and is much more versatile than any dolly I have seen short of a Fisher. Problem is that you cannot buy a Fisher and if you could, they still weigh 400 to 700lbs when loaded up with accessories. So you need a cube van with a lift gate, etc.

The RED can be used with anything from a Canon HV-30 to a Panavision Film camera. If you check out the demo on their website, the RED dolly is also capable of doing some pretty unique moves because of the way that the wheels lock and unlock. It weighs a mere 113 lbs and can easily fit in a trunk, van or pickup. It can be teamed with skate wheels for use on regular dolly track as well. They have a platform available as well if you want to set your jib on it.

Very impressive product and B&H has it for under $2,400.00. Also the step off platform in the middle of the dolly for Steadicam operators to do combo moves is impressive and the fact that dolly is also rigged for outlets for grip and lighting on board is pretty cool.

A very smart product. http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=article&cat=11&ID=278 P.S. I don't work for Matthews, just interviewed them and they showed me this product and I was instantly smitten with wanting one. It seems ideal for just about any situation short of tabletop and I already have a tabletop dolly.

Dan
Click to expand...

now that is neat
 
No, the wheels don't change out. You buy sleds (small tracks that have rows of the skateboard wheels). This is exactly how all professional dollies like Fishers do it. The whole integrated skateboard wheel thing is mostly a prosumer thing, the big dollies, they just have four grips pick the dolly up and place them on the sleds.

I see the RED Dolly as more of a pro thing for users who rent Chapmans and Fishers but want to go smaller, quicker and easier. $2,400.00 is a lot for most HVX/HPX/EX1 users for a dolly. If you add up all of the accessories with the RED dolly, depending on how you want to configure it, you can easily total it out at $4,000.00 to $5,000.00 with all of the toys like a bungee cam setup, bazooka, belly board, etc.

I am looking at the brochure here and they have twelve dedicated accessories for the RED Dolly:

1. 34" push bar adapters $80.00 for a set of 2
2. 1-1/4" speedrail adapter $40.00 ea.
3. Mini Bazooka tube 8" $400.00
4. Bazooka 24" to 39" telescoping $1,400.00
5. CBC adapter for 100mm bowl $450.00
6. CBC adapter for 150mm bowl $500.00
7. Mitchell to Elemac adapter $330.00
8. Elemac to Mitchell adapter $400.00
9. Bungee camera mount $1,000.00
10. Bungee cam mounting rig $400.00
11. Seat and riser $347.00
12. Junior offset arm $121.00

No price listed for belly board but figure $200.00 to $400.00

It is a great tool. I may pick one up next year.

Dan
 
Sorry about the pricing mix-up. The Canadian dollar has fallen over 20% in the last 4 weeks which has had us adjusting the US/CAD conversion on the site. It's all fixed now.

Av, we've got several short adjustable columns designed to basically replace a high hat...they're not in the catalog yet but if you call, we can figure a unit out for you. The current wheel pods are removable and we are indeed planning a locking pneumatic wheel kit to swap in there. The entire system is very modular.

Cheers,
Dennis.
 
Thanks for the update Dennis. I hope to call/order in the next day or two. Do you have any photos/further information of the columns?

Puredrifting - they only include a template for the belly board rather than sell one themselves. I think the bungee cam is relatively simple to rig up:
-large cheese plate
-4 bungees (various strengths for different effects)
-3 c-stands (with no base)
-Boom Arm
-Junior Wall Plate
 
Avenger007 said:
Thanks for the update Dennis. I hope to call/order in the next day or two. Do you have any photos/further information of the columns?

Puredrifting - they only include a template for the belly board rather than sell one themselves. I think the bungee cam is relatively simple to rig up:
-large cheese plate
-4 bungees (various strengths for different effects)
-3 c-stands (with no base)
-Boom Arm
-Junior Wall Plate
Click to expand...

Hi Avenger:

Good to know about the Belly Board.

I would rig the bungee cam setup with speed rail, (as shown here) not C-stands. Although your method is probably less expensive.

1225149058.jpg


Dan
 
Dennis Wood said:
Sorry about the pricing mix-up. The Canadian dollar has fallen over 20% in the last 4 weeks which has had us adjusting the US/CAD conversion on the site. It's all fixed now.

Av, we've got several short adjustable columns designed to basically replace a high hat...they're not in the catalog yet but if you call, we can figure a unit out for you. The current wheel pods are removable and we are indeed planning a locking pneumatic wheel kit to swap in there. The entire system is very modular.

Cheers,
Dennis.
Click to expand...


Whoa, this is exactly what Aram and I were talking about during the Jaylyn Ducati music vid shoot. We wished you had a shorter center mast/column that would allow for that mid level range. Realistically we never use the Ballare's full height capabilities... Ok, that's a lie, we used it once! But it was a ridiculous situation. There have been many more occasions where we wished we could tap into that mid level range. Until now, we've settled with a quick swap from center mast to tripod for any shots in that height.

Having a shorter center mast/column would go a long way in practical/common use.

What's with this new locking wheel kit? Thats another thing that would make life easier. These all sound like great improvements. Gotta love the upgradeability.

Performance-wise the dolly hasn't skipped a beat. I'm sure the ballare will do well with the RED on board, though I doubt the low mode extended kit will be as kind. We'll see. If you plan on getting a ballare, schedule 40 PVC........ the ballare loves these the best (and so does my wallet).

That RED dolly is pretty damn cool. Price is very competetive as well. Especially considering the price of their other dollies.
 
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That's pretty much the same concluson we came to...it needs a lower mast with adjustment range from 1.5 to 3 feet or so. We had some machining "mistakes" which ended up as re-machined mini-masts. We should have them shortly.

The arm system (with the upcoming pneumatic wheel kit) we've implemented allows use of the dolly as a larger version of the P&S Skater....we've been working on this for a while now :-)
 
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