Cinematographer's rate

[stefancolson]

Another question... revisiting this thread... not necessarily how much you charge, but what would constitute a good reason to raise prices (not including gear upgrades).

What job would I have to land, or what approach/thinking can I apply to raise my rate?

when is it appropriate to go from x to 2x?

Raise your rates when you feel you've reached a new level of skill, when you are consistently cheaper than everyone else (you don't want to be the guy that undercuts all of the competition all of the time), when you are regularly being offered as much or more than your day rate (or when people never pause at your rate. If someone says yes quickly and enthusiastically then you probably didn't ask for enough). You need to know how your rates compare to your peers, what the rates and budgets are like for the types of productions you normally book, and charge accordingly.

Regular clients will accept rate hikes as long as they're justifiable, you do great work and are great to work with, and you still remain competitive. I usually will explain rate increases to repeat clients as increasing costs, better caliber crew as time progresses, and an overall increase in the quality of what I offer. Just make sure that if you show a client one of your older pieces that was for your old rate vs something recent at the new rate they can easily see the difference. That's what has worked for me anyway.

Does anyone have any advice for finding more clients? My new commercial and corporate reels I'm cutting kick ass and should be among the best in the area for owner/ops (obviously I can't compete with production companies that have motion graphics and helicopter shots, but in terms of composition and exposure and lighting I'm embarrassing the rest of my price range), but I don't have a network, just a few clients at the moment. I've tried asking on craigslist and looking for referrals, but I have no network. To be fair my networking skills are terrible? As an owner/op trying to get into more corporate and commercial work, how does one progress? How do you meet new people to work with. Again, I'm cutting reels that max out the quality of production viable at this budget level (near-perfect work within the context of the scale of the shot) so that's no concern.

Fwiw, I think $500/day with no gear is a very high day rate for someone just getting started. Unless you're luck you'll need to accept a loss and shoot on spec to start and make your money as an AC (which helps with networking, my problem is no one will hire me as an AC since I have no experience in that either).

$500/day for someone without a lot of experience and a track record is probably not going to happen much. I try to always consider things from the producer's perspective as well. If there's $500/day in a budget for the DP, then the project is costing thousands of dollars/day. The DP probably has a more direct link to the final visual product than anyone else, and as such is crucial to delivering a quality product. Why take a risk on someone that may or may not deliver when there are vets that can be hired for the same rate?

Quality is important, but it's far from the last word in getting work. It's more important to be able to prove that you can deliver consistently, on-time and under-budget. Once you're out of that first stage of your career skill is just a given, everyone has it. You make your money by being reliable, punctual, pleasant, and enthusiastic. Being among the best at what you do just ensures that you don't get canned for incompetence.

The networking question is heavily dependent on what you want to do. I don't really know the commercial/corporate world beyond some smaller freelance work, so I don't really know who you'd reach out to in order to make inroads there other than just cold-approaching agencies and production companies. As much of a long shot as it is, I've booked jobs after sending an email and a reel to the producer of a project I really wanted to work on even though I had no connections or ins. It doesn't work most of the time, but you only need one "yes' to make the endeavor worthwhile.

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

So you don't get stuck in bottom-feeder rate it's helpful to have side personal projects. So when some cat asks you to trade your expertise for no money you can tactfully say 'no' knowing that you will "make" more by working on your personal project (I can make more $$ by spending time writing a proposal to a foundation for one of my docs than someone offering me $500/d). So i can tactfully say 'no' to that and not feel bad about not taking jobs.

Moreover some people here seem to forget that it's not always factory-floor thinking: cheapest & fastest. Those factors are easy to measure but it's the wealth of other less measurable qualities that filmmaking is all about. How cool are you dealing with the talent and the higher ups? If asked to, can you bring out the "sparkle"? Are you so efficient that you don't know when it's time to bring out big gear only because the client is on the set and needs to be impressed? The "better rate guy" are often hired to bring prestige to the project or to make the higher ups look good. It's not always the cheapest & fastest as if making a plastic trinkets in some Chinese factory.

 

[TimurCivan]

$500-750 a day is a good place to start for a beginner.

There was a question asked, "when is the best time to raise your rates?"

The answer is when you establish yourself with a new client. They dont know your rates. If they dont balk at your now somewhat higher rate, and you can deliver material that pleases them, that picks you up a level. You will likely get referred to their colleagues at your new rate, and after some time, as you now will likely have more access to higher budget productions, and tools, your skill set will grow. Then, you do it again when you feel you are ready to step up.

In NYC, the basic levels are as follows:

Year 1: The zerobudget shoots: pay about $200-300 a day (crap music videos, tiny short films with minimal equip/crew)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Year 2: Low budget: $500 or so. (interviews, reality, doc) the kinds of jobs where the producer needs a meatbag with a pulse to hold up a camera.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then there is a sort of glass ceiling here. Below this line, often the "DP" is a glorified one man band camera operator/DP/Gaffer/Sound man. you need to shoot alot of narrative, and spec commerical work to build up a good looking reel that helps you break though the barrier. Its miserable, and takes about a year to make the transition. This will likely happen about 3-4 years into your career. This is the time to really build up relationships and meet young producers and directors that have talent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(around Year 5) After this point, the rates seem to jump up to about $1000-1500 a day, and you get things like and AC and a gaffer. If you can manage enough days it, you can make a comfortable living, and be content. This is the realm of small commercials, bigger web videos/Ads and small $100-500K indie features.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is where you have to make a decision. Do you want to advance, and take this DEADLY serious. From here rates jump up to about $2500 a day just to show up. This is big non Union Commercials, Medium Indy Features (they often dont pay 2500 a day but want people with this much experience), However, this is a very thin layer in the industry because at this point, jobs start going Union. So you have to make that choice.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Union: This is the big league. Dp's get around $3000 a day. High end Commercial DP's command $5,000 a day, and the select few can pull in $10,000+ ( the late Harris Savides for example, but its rare)






Also, it doesnt hurt to be confident in your abilities, and know you can deliver the quality the top paying gigs demand. This is how i worked my way up. I will be going IATSE Local 600 in 3 months time as a DOP. Took about 8 years.