Cinematographer's rate

K

Kenneth Lau

Active member
Hi I am a start out cinematographer and have been working on freelance gigs mostly pro bono stuff just to build up my portfolio.

Recently I have been asked by my clients, ' what is your rate? ' and since I have not been thinking much about how to charge people, I don't really know how to answer.

I would like to ask, when you are transitioning from doing pro bono work to paid gigs, what is the best way to charge people?

Let say it is a one day shoot of a 30sec commercial, do you charge by project or per hours?

If you charge per hours, does location scouting, production meetings count too?!?

Please help me out here guys.

Thanks
 
Don't agree to a flat rate. Just do a day rate, thats an 8 hour day with 2 hours of prepaid over time. Don't agree to half-day rates, as a half day is a full day you're not working.

I often just think it's sort of silly when people ask me what my rate is, as they know what they want to pay and they won't really budge too much from that. It's much more productive for them to tell you what they have to offer and for you to say if that's too low.

Just be a nice guy about it, give them a full rate sort of thing and let them know it's always negotiable from project to project and just to let you know more. I think since you're just starting out you could say 500/10 hours...Thats just for you as well, all gear should be separate and charged accordingly.

Also yeah, location scouts, production meetings, all that stuff should count...you are working, aren't you? Again, these are just day rates though...People do weird stuff to get to that hourly rate, but it usually always starts at a day rate and then they work backwards from a 12 or 10 hour day to figure out what that hourly wage is for an 8 hour day + OT is.
 
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Asking how to calculate a "rate" is not something you can get an answer to.
Location, experience, equipment, your reel, etc, etc, etc....
No one can tell you how much to charge, it just doesn't work like that.
 
morgan_moore said:
Calculate what it cost to stay alive for a year, divide it by 200

S
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I don't know any dp's personally that work 200 days a year. Maybe some guys in tv can pull that off.

And yes, while prep and scouts should count, expect to do them for free when you're just starting off.
expect to do them. Anything you're doing when starting off is worth doing right.
 
Absolutely true on the 200 days 'worked'

I guess I want to think about or do work 200 days per year (DPA)

So if if you shoot 100 DPA you should be able to stay alive on 100X your day rate, if you are doing free recces and meets in the other hundred so be it

I just suggest people know what they need to earn - its a good start point and is often suprisingly high

As Im in the middle of my accounts at the moment some figures (of the owner operator) I guess $1 about 1/3 more..
Van Fuel Repairs; £5100
Insurance; £2000
Office Miscallany £1000
Phone and Web £800
Accountant £700

Thats just a slice which is nearly £10k or £100 per day at 100DPA - before earning anything or thinking about kit depreciation/replacement

S
 
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You charge what people are willing to pay. Finding that out can be tough, but one of the best ways to do it is to find your competition and get a quote for hiring them. Modify it as needed for your experience and equipment.

The actual number you'll have to figure out. The terminology, however, you don't. Clients expect a day rate. Payroll sheets are generally filled out in day rates (yeah, I'm sometimes the business nerd who looks over the payroll sheets on set). Your hourly numbers come from that if you need to give a quote for a project that requires limited amounts of time, but if you're a DP and not a videographer that will pretty much never happen. Be sure to tell people what day rate means- either 10 or 12 hour days- so they don't think it's the whole 24 hour period.
 
as pookie stated, you can only know what you need to charge. I usually have a fair rate of 950.00 per day. including gear. It works for me, yeah, I can go higher, but I don't want to price myself out of the job. So thats where Im at. I don't live in NYC. I live on Cape Cod, So the jobs are smaller, less money, no where near the amount of work as in say manhatten. And you have the same six guys fighting for the same jobs.
 
oof! 200 shooting days in a year... at least it would pay for the coffin.
 
Should you wait for the client to tell you the budget first?

or you should throw them the rate first and then modify??
 
Your questions regarding rates and things to ask the client lead to a straight forward question to you.

How old are you? Not an insulting question, it makes a difference.
 
Part of being a professional is being able to confidently state your rate when asked for it.

I have been doing so for over 35 years and I still hold my breath and pause slightly when asked.

I often think I am too cheap considering I dont get many rejections.

FWIW: My freelance D.P rate roughly converted to USD is $1600 - $2800.
Day is 10 hours
I do not charge over time, I charge part rates for long recces or long pre prod meetings.
Half day is 60% of a full day rate.
Travel days - at half day rate.
Equipment charged separately.

My freelance D.P rate varies for different roles I may undertake or different productions.
eg. D.P, Director/D.P second unit, aerials, TVC, web video...

I charge my self out to my own production company at least twice as much.



As others have said...you have to establish the rate for yourself and then someone else will tell you whether they think you are worth it or if they can afford you.

Its a hard graft ...art is!
 
SO much depends on the market.
As a producer, when I approach a DP I give them my DP budget number, either they take it or they don't. If they don't, I find someone who will.
 
When I worked full time in TV, I was on the road for 250 days out of the year. The money was great, but missing birthdays, holidays, and the lack of time to relax, made me get out and pursue other options.

Now I pick and choose the jobs I want, the money is better, and I have more time at home than I know what to do with.

That being said, I charge $1,400 a day for 10 hours, no half days, no hourly rates except for OT over 10. Factor in milage, travel days, per diem and OT on some shoots, and I can work 2 days a month live comfortably. Right now I'm working about 6 days a month, steady. 5 of those days are for the same client, they supply the gear, I show up and shoot.
 
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Davoosie said:
When I worked full time in TV, I was on the road for 250 days out of the year. The money was great, but missing birthdays, holidays, and the lack of time to relax, made me get out and pursue other options.

Now I pick and choose the jobs I want, the money is better, and I have more time at home than I know what to do with.

That being said, I charge $1,400 a day for 10 hours, no half days, no hourly rates except for OT over 10. Factor in milage, travel days, per diem and OT on some shoots, and I can work 2 days a month live comfortably. Right now I'm working about 6 days a month, steady. 5 of those days are for the same client, they supply the gear, I show up and shoot.
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May I ask, what do you shoot now?
 
I have a unofficial "contract" with a company that is somewhat local, about as local as you can get around here. Right now we're just doing some commercials, and promo spots. And some corporate shareholder crap tossed in (I really hate those shoots) I think in the next coming months they want me to do a behind the scenes of the manufacturing process that goes in to the product they make. The commercials are 60% U.S. based, the rest go to the U.K. and Japan (I think), with some web stuff thrown in. I just shoot, they edit in house. I doubt I've seen the finish product on half the stuff I've shot for them. They have a full production kit (XDCam HD, lights, audio, etc..) It's just cheaper to hire me, an audio guy, etc... on a as-needed basis, than keep someone on staff. Plus it helps that I'm good friends with one of the higher ups in the company.

In reality if a client wants to pay me my day rate, Ill shoot little Timmys birthday party, scenics for a TV show, porn, a music video or a car commercial, whatever. Sure I can pick and choose now, but you never know what one of those small jobs might lead to something bigger. As a rule I don't shoot films, short or otherwise. I come from a TV background, I think like a TV cameraman, I can't wrap my head around shooting for film. :|

The biggest joke I had with my wife was "I don't get out of bed for less than $1,000"
 
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@Pookie: Totally pertinent question, I know it was for the OP but I have to reinforce it. Especially here, older means more, if the person in front of you knows nothing about you. No matter how good I am, I can't charge as much as a DP here who's been in it for 20 years. I'll look bad, so yeah, because it's a long long long thing to do (projects are twice a year), it takes time to build this experience and age matters.

Me? I can't stand saying my rates. I remember this thread about taking low budget jobs, I think the reason for this question (I myself am DYING to know if there's this schedule with ideal standard rates on it and why I haven't seen it) is the fear of not getting the job for being too expensive. This is a trap. I think the skill here is to find a rate (you ahve to find it yourself it seems to be the recurring answer) and stick to it.

I am going through the painful part of standing my ground, my rate is relatively cheap but still always negotiated, there's a time where I have to say stop, this is me, if it's too much, find someone else. That's the hardest thing I've had to do. It looks like you're losing a gig but there was never a gig in the first place.

Rates? base them of your past, and others' rates with respect. Don't lowball (you'll only suffer) and don't supercharge, every place is different. Stick to your rates, it's easier if you haven't given in to the low budg before, and keep in mind your age, ie how long you've been doing this, to reinforce pookie's question.

Hope this helps...
 
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