Cinema Package

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We're doing up a budget...

Want to know what options are best for independant film making concerning the accesories available for the AG-DVX100a...

Please, any suggestions are welcome...
Thanks...
 
Re: Cinema Package

lets go about this the opposite way...

you tell me what I should get and that will be my budget.

Honestly, at this point I'm being asked to determine how much it will cost. So, I'm asking for you guys/gals to tell me what's available for this camera.

On the website they don't have all of the accesories listed. I've seen it equipped with a hood, and other attachments.

So, I'll ask again...Do you guys have any suggestion for how to outfit the AG-DVX100a for optimal use in "film" production?

Thanks
 
Re: Cinema Package

Dear Koss,

I am an equipement manufacturer but can't help but wonder when I see this type of post:

who is going to be the Director and DP/operator? it would seem that someone making a movie would be planning on using someone with experience. That person(s) should have a good idea of what is required. The story and script will dictate what you need besides a camera and tape.

Perhaps you are have so little knowledge of the equipment and the craft that you don't realize the scope of the question you have asked.

A review of a number of the threads should give you some idea of the issues, otherwise budget $10,000 and keep moving forward.

Bill Turner
 
Re: Cinema Package

Exactly

Products and accessories can range from the 'teens' to the 'thousands' of dollars. Optimal Film Production can mean many things. Do a search a look aorund at the vast amount of threads but to simply ask "What do I need?" is like saying 'what kind of automobile should I get?'
 
Re: Cinema Package

actually it's not like asking what kind of car I should get...

In this case we already know what kind of car I'm getting...It's an AG-DVX100a...

The question is more like asking..."I'm going to be driving in a lot of snow...What kinds of tires do you recommend?"

However, instead of actual assistance I get the usual replies concerning presumed lack of knowledge, poorly structured questions, etc...

Ultimately, if you have nothing to say that is actually helpful it is generally best to say nothing at all...

The only reply that was even remotely beneficial was the one concerning a $10,000.00 budget for the camera, and it was only that portion of the reply that was of any assistance.

"I have to wonder" when an equipment manufacturer says just budget $10,000.00 for an item and move forward, why there is no explanation as to why that $10,000.00 is being budgeted, especially when it is common knowledge that the item in question retails for about $2,700.00. What's the other $7,300.00 for?

All Im asking for is a list of options available for the camera. Not specific manufacturers, or anything like that...Just a starting point to go from.

If you don't have the answer, just say so...

And it is true that I could search endlessly through the forums for the info, but I wouldn't know where to start, and in my experience forum searches are not very effective, unless it's a common question.
 
Re: Cinema Package

Dear Mr Koss,

I am truly sorry you feel you are not getting the help you need,

My point was do you need filters? a mattebox? a tripod? lights, microphones, monitors, the list can go on and on, the prices vary dramatically - see some of the threads on tripods for example,

My point was that without knowing the details of the story the location, one can't know what you need, does the story board call for wide angle shots, telephoto's extreme close ups, is it being shot underwater?

You think I am being a wise ass, or insensitive, or purposefully not helpfull, but trust me, outfitting a DVX100 properly for a production can be expensive, if you need the gear--and one has no way of knowing from your posts.

cheap but ok tripod $400, quality fluid head $1000+ , mattebox support, follow-focus, filters $2500, lighting kit $500- $1000, camera $3200 where I shop, well I hope you start to get the idea that spending $10,000 isn't impossible, the first quesiton you were asked was what is your budget? and you declined to answer.

I still think you need to sit down with a pro and go over the project and have them put together the budget -- but I think $5000 is close to the minimum if you dont't like $10,000- why not rent??

Sorry if this is not what you wish to hear.

Bill Turner
 
Re: Cinema Package

Are you shooting 4:3, 16:9, anamorphic? Going to DVD? Going to filmout? Is this a feature film? A short?

If we ask of your budget and can get an answer we can best help determine your needs. $10,000 or $10.00 ?

We can sit up all day and list the accessories that you might be interested in, but this can make a budget $1000.00 or $10,000.00

Do you want Bill to spend 30 minutes listing every single option for the DVX100a? Why dont you quit being lazy and actually look around. Furthermore, why dont you quit being rude because someone didnt lay down the 800 accessories availble broken down by pricing and importance for you.

If you have knowledge, then you should know where to start. IF you dont have knowledge just say so. But dont give anyone static cause you were'nt given the 'all seeing eye' to help you.

People man. Damn.
 
Re: Cinema Package

[quote author=Bill__Turner link=board=news;num=1101163993;start=0#6 date=11/22/04 at 17:02:22]Dear Mr Koss,

I am truly sorry you feel you are not getting the help you need,  

My point was do you need filters?  a mattebox? a tripod?  lights,  microphones,  monitors,  the list can go on and on,  the prices vary dramatically - see some of the threads on tripods for example,

My point was that without knowing the details of the story the location, one can't know what you need,   does the story board call for wide angle shots, telephoto's extreme close ups, is it being shot underwater?

You think I am being a wise ass, or insensitive, or purposefully not helpfull,  but trust me,  outfitting a DVX100 properly for a production can be expensive,  if you need the gear--and one has no way of knowing from your posts.

cheap but ok tripod  $400,   quality fluid head $1000+  ,   mattebox support, follow-focus,  filters $2500,  lighting kit $500- $1000,  camera $3200 where I shop,  well I hope you start to get the idea that spending $10,000 isn't impossible,  the first quesiton you were asked was what is your budget?  and you declined to answer.

I still think you need to sit down with a pro and go over the project and have them put together the budget -- but I think $5000 is close to the minimum if you dont't like $10,000- why not rent??

Sorry if this is not what you wish to hear.

Bill Turner[/quote]

I never once flinched at the $10,000.00 price tag...I simply asked what goes into that price tag.

Further, I did not decline to answer regarding the budget, I simply said that my budget is whatever it needs to be.

Our shooting schedule is roughly 45 non-consecutive days long. Rental fees would be twice that of the camera and accessories.

I find it better to ask open questions because you tend to learn more that way. If I confine my question to specific items, then I may be limiting the variety and scope of the responses.

However, since you guys seem bent on making me, here's a list of what I "think" I will be needing...

Tripod - Proffesional Fluid head with dolly wheel compatibility.
Steadicam rig - Weighted appropriately for an AG-DVX100a
Lighting Kit - I'm not a lighting guy, any suggestions? What seems to work well with this camera in cinematic applications?
Nice Remote control unit - Zoom/start-stop-record...
Nice Boom mic - I'm thinking a Senheiser MHK70 - how does that sound? (excuse the pun, please)

HAs it been found to be adequate to plug a boom mic directly into the AG-DVX100as XLR inouts or is it best to use an external mixer like the PSC Alphamix?

Telephoto lenses, filter kits...which ones have been found to work best with these cameras?
What do I need to adapt the lens to shoot anamorphic 16x9 images properly. Where can I get what I need, and for how much?
Are "barn doors" available for this camera? Where can I get them?

I'm thinking about streaming the video over firewire directly to external firewire drives for easy management of the clips. Do any of you have any experience with this?

I will need a monitor array, but I'm thinking about using a Marshall 4 LCD monitor setup. Each LCD monitor is only about 3" but that should be enough for the DP to check shots for accuracy.

Incidentally, we're probably going to be doing a three camera shoot for some of the scenes. So, we'll be purchasing whatever you suggest three times over.

Those are all of the specific questions I can come up with right now...

Did I miss anything? If I did, feel free to tell me.

BTW: I am a pro...I work in a TV studio from 9 to 5, but I've never used this camera before, and don't know what is available for it...My studio is outfitted with three Ikegami DVCPro 50 Cameras, and a grass valley zodiac switcher. Of course, the AG-DVX100a is a different beast entirely. I'm here to get more detailed info on the cameras usage in a "film" setting. My friends and I have done a few indie films, but for our next project we have been given a cumulative budget of $300,000.00. We've chosen the AG-DVX100a based on it's 24p mode, and the fact that it is relatively inexpensive. The less we spend on the cameras themselves, within reason, the more we can lavish on the other production aspects. I was satisfied with the overall look of "28 Days Later" and I am confident that the AG-DVX100a is capable of even better overall picture quality due mainly to it's 24p mode. The idea being to make the final product look as good as possible while spending as little as possible.
 
Re: Cinema Package

Ok. The reasonable question now is much more clear.

You will be facing a 45 day shoot. You  You wan't to buy Camera Gear. You will be doing the cinematography (otherwise, you'd have a list of stuff to buy by now). Why not rent stuff for the 3 camera shots? but anyway, here's what I can take for the size of your production:

DVX With 4-5 extra batteries. Buy them from this site, they are great and economic: 70 dollars each. A camera case, The cables you need for the field, lens cleaner, minor accessories: 4000.

Anamorphic adapter (from panasonic): You'll need all the resolution you can get, so budget another 700 dollars for it.

A Nice tripod: At least a Sachler DV4, around 1500, or up to 2000 dollars. Cartoni, Vinten or Miller also have nice models.

Chroziel Mattebox (the "Barn Doors") and follow focus (with rod support): You'll need that mattebox to use with the anamorphic, plus be serious about focus, since you'll be going to the big screen. I think it's around 2500. (But for the follow focus to be useful, you will have to be using the services of an Ass. Cameraman.

The focus issue brings the next point: You'll be monitoring through a 3.5" LCD? Big nono. Budget for a propper NTSC field monitor, that can be battery operated and that can show you the 16:9 picture and underscan. Don't trust you camera monitors, so don't even care about hoods and other stuff like that. A good monitor, like the Sony PVM-9L3, will do all that for 1000, some batteries and a charger for it could bring it over 1500.

Filters: Up to you (as the cinematographer to decide) If you don't need any effect filters, at leas buy some "utility" filters as Grad ND's and a Polarizer. You won't be sorry when you need them. Don't go over 1000 here.

So far it's 12K and we still have not covered the steadicam (and other camera movement), any audio gear, or lighting. But it's the best of the best for the DVX, and could surely be cut shorter, with propper reasoning. Besides, I think for a 300.000 Budget, it's what the cam department deserves.

Now, you could spend around 2000 for a steadicam that handles the DVX as the Magicam, or similar products. (there is a french model that is cheaper, the Aigle).

I don't know about cranes and dollies, but consider renting those, for the top quality stuff.

As far as audio is concerned, leave it to the soundman. Hire someone that has the equipment, or have him demand you a list. That will be based on locations (scouting) and storyboards. A mixer is indeed necessary, if you want the soundman out of your way and doing his job. Besides, even the DVX being a fantastic camcorder for sound, mixers mic preamps and analog filters are still much higher quality. The least you should settle is for a Sound Devices 302, or any similar product. It costs 1200. At least 2 boom mics should be bought, a cardioid and a short shotgun. The MKH-60 would be much more versatile than a MKH-70, and for a cardioid there are also lots of choices from 200 to 1500 dolars. Think on buying wireless lavaliers (at least 2) if the shooting condition seems to require, otherwise, have them rent for specific shots (again, through talk with the soundman and location scouting). So audio alone should cost you from 5000 dollars to 10000.

Lights, you could buy a lighting kit, but you'd probably still have to rent a lot. The list is for the gaffer to decide, but a nice Arri Softbank tungsten lighting kit could save your ass for those 5 smaller locations, and could be justified as a purchase.

Still purchasing all equipment for a feature project seems a little odd. Your first question was absurdely vague, so don't get upset from the answers you got. That was all those (very knowledgeable) people could give you.
 
Re: Cinema Package

having difficulty locating the matte box and follow focus system you're talking about, can you be a little more specific?

Did a search on here, and it appears that the use of these items is no easy task.

also, do I need a 16x9 lens and a lens adapter to achieve 16x9 anamorphic shots?

Additionally, how do I know whether or not the 16x9 Lens, matte box, and follow focus will work together?
 
Re: Cinema Package

Koss,

I'm a newbie around here and don't have much experience with "film" or video. But I do have a fair bit of experience in music and sound, so I'm going to go out on a limb and give you my advice, only because I think it's actually valuable. Whether or not you do is for you to decide.

Go ahead and research all this stuff, but before you do/purchase ANYTHING, other than perhaps the camera itself, start recruiting/hiring your crew. I don't know where you are located, but if you are in or near an urban center, I guarantee you will find quality crew that not only knows what it wants, but already owns it. You will still have to rent the gear from them, but it will more than likely be for less than what a rental company would charge you. And, BTW, this is not simply a cost cutting maneuver. For example, you mentioned audio gear. Every piece of audio gear has its own idiosyncrasies and when you start matching components these idiosyncrasies grow exponentially. Now can any good audio tech get decent sound with any kit, more than likely sure. But you will get better sound, faster and with less fuss if your audio tech is using the same equipment that he/she uses day in and day out, equipment that they already know like the back of their hand because they use it and maintain it. In fact I will go so far as to say that an experienced audio tech using a SLIGHTLY inferior mic that they have extensive experience with will produce better audio than with a better mic that they are using for the first time.

Gaffers, at least in NYC, often have their own truck filled with lighting and again, you rent the gear from them as part of their deal memo.

The mattebox systems you are looking at are universal systems, meaning they can be used on many types of cameras as long as you have the right adaptors. Now your DP might already have a set of filters that he or she likes to use, they may even have the mattebox, which means you would only have to purchase the mounting hardware.

Do you see where I'm going with this? I don't mean to be rude or combative, but I honestly believe that if you take this approach you will not only get more bang for your buck gear wise, but you will also have far fewer headaches during production and wind up with a better product in the end.

Best of luck,

Matt
 
Re: Cinema Package

[quote author=MattC link=board=news;num=1101163993;start=0#14 date=11/22/04 at 20:59:04]Koss,

I'm a newbie around here and don't have much experience with "film" or video.  But I do have a fair bit of experience in music and sound, so I'm going to go out on a limb and give you my advice, only because I think it's actually valuable.  Whether or not you do is for you to decide.

Go ahead and research all this stuff, but before you do/purchase ANYTHING, other than perhaps the camera itself, start recruiting/hiring your crew.  I don't know where you are located, but if you are in or near an urban center, I guarantee you will find quality crew that not only knows what it wants, but already owns it.  You will still have to rent the gear from them, but it will more than likely be for less than what a rental company would charge you.  And, BTW, this is not simply a cost cutting maneuver.  For example, you mentioned audio gear.  Every piece of audio gear has its own idiosyncrasies and when you start matching components these idiosyncrasies grow exponentially.  Now can any good audio tech get decent sound with any kit, more than likely sure.  But you will get better sound, faster and with less fuss if your audio tech is using the same equipment that he/she uses day in and day out, equipment that they already know like the back of their hand because they use it and maintain it.  In fact I will go so far as to say that an experienced audio tech using a SLIGHTLY inferior mic that they have extensive experience with will produce better audio than with a better mic that they are using for the first time.  

Gaffers, at least in NYC, often have their own truck filled with lighting and again, you rent the gear from them as part of their deal memo.  

The mattebox systems you are looking at are universal systems, meaning they can be used on many types of cameras as long as you have the right adaptors.  Now your DP might already have a set of filters that he or she likes to use, they may even have the mattebox, which means you would only have to purchase the mounting hardware.

Do you see where I'm going with this?  I don't mean to be rude or combative, but I honestly believe that if you take this approach you will not only get more bang for your buck gear wise, but you will also have far fewer headaches during production and wind up with a better product in the end.

Best of luck,

Matt[/quote]

ummm....no...my way is better...thanks anyway...

anyone have answers to my last three posts?

thanks
 
Re: Cinema Package

Panasonic AG-DVX100a $2,600.00 2 $5,200.00
8 Hour Lithium Ion Batteries $500.00 2 $1,000.00
16X9 Anamorphic Lens Adapter $700.00 2 $1,400.00
Telephoto Lens $700.00 2 $1,400.00
Citidisk DV Drive $879.00 2 $1,758.00
3 piece filter kit $500.00 2 $1,000.00
Case $110.00 2 $220.00
Matte Box $1,775.00 2 $3,550.00
Follow Focus $1,655.00 2 $3,310.00
$-
$-
$-
$-
$-
$-
$-
$-
$-
$-

$18,838.00
 
Re: Cinema Package

[quote author=kosstheory link=board=news;num=1101163993;start=15#15 date=11/22/04 at 21:18:16]
ummm....no...my way is better...thanks anyway...
[/quote]

Of course it is....
 
Re: Cinema Package

Want to know what options are best for independant film making concerning the accesories available for the AG-DVX100a...
Click to expand...

You seem like a person who likes to get to the point so:

1. If budget isn't a concern, make your camera look like this:
Money3.jpg


it's a Chrosziel/Century ring follow focus set up with 15mm rods and mattebox allowing the 16X9 adapter, lcd hood, a fluid head tripod, buy a crane, a steadicam, and a dolly. A carbon fiber boom pole and an indoor mic as well as an outdoor mic with a windscreen, a load of MQ tapes, a set of filters...

That's the list of everything you'd need. Everything else would take a month to list.
As far as getting "WHAT'S BEST"...well...Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one.
If you want to know ask RUSH at Evsonline.com or B&HPhoto...big stores, they know what works and why.

2. You're not going to find a DVX100A for 2,600, unless it's used or grey market, and if it is grey market, good luck with that.

3. You're question was a multi-layered question, that needed questions to be asked and answered before the nice people here at DVXuser can help you.

By the way, if you read it again...It wasn't even a question.
Good luck with filming.
 
Re: Cinema Package

and no one's mentioned P+S Mini 35, which sounds maybe nessecary for a project like this, if it's going to the big screen.

And dude, the ppl trying to help u here are some of the nicest and most knowledgable folks I've talked to, and if u're a pro, you can't tell by the way you handle urself.
 
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