GH2 Cinema Anamoprphic footage and More | Evolving

2 Questions:

If the footage from a GH2 is already in Rec709, how should that affect my project setup in AE, where I normally set it up to be 709 linear? It shouldn´t make any difference, right? I guess this is an apropiate place to ask your opinion on which setup to use, if a film print is considered likely or possible?


And @Kholi, are you so set on 5DtoRGB because it´s free or have you discovered advantages over NeoScene, which I've always used since I got my GH1. I consider it cheap, since it has an easy batching workflow, de-interlace and back then the best results, I believe?
 
J Davis said:
thats +1 on saturation? not a typo?

I'm running skintone tests at the moment -2 thru +2 but not had time to see my results
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That was a typo. Supposed to be -1

JackBayer said:
2 Questions:

If the footage from a GH2 is already in Rec709, how should that affect my project setup in AE, where I normally set it up to be 709 linear? It shouldn´t make any difference, right? I guess this is an apropiate place to ask your opinion on which setup to use, if a film print is considered likely or possible?
Click to expand...

You should just set it up for Rec709 space, but it won't make that much of a difference without an external production monitor or something color balanced properly. If you kick it out to a television set it would show closer, but you really need accurate monitors to judge.

I think if you were going to do a film print, you'd have access to a proper post process to get to that standard. Don't worry about that too much.

And @Kholi, are you so set on 5DtoRGB because it´s free or have you discovered advantages over NeoScene, which I've always used since I got my GH1. I consider it cheap, since it has an easy batching workflow, de-interlace and back then the best results, I believe?
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FCP Log and Transfer is free, works right in my NLE, and batches. I could just use that to ProRes422 and walk away.

I still need to pay for 5DtoRGB but I'm broke, so I am willing to sit here and one by one them to get what 5DtoRGB offers, namely a Rec709 color space and options to go to DPX, 4444, or just plain ol 422. One of the MAJOR issues I had with GH2 footage was how fast it clips to black, second the way the colors were hard to clean up in post. With 5DtoRGB transcodes I can fine tune the black point for viewing source.

Which reminds me, Colorista and Magic Bullet both need more advanced curve options, like adding spline points wherever you want.

5DtoRGB does what FCP L&T can't, and I think NeoScene as well.

Note, though: I use AVCHD FHD straight to 24P, not the 1080i mode. I don't like de-interlacing as it leaves too much in the air. That's another thing I disliked about the GH1. =[
 
Well, I´m outputting for TV sets right now, but there are quite a few festivals which prefer or even only accept 16mm submissions. I am going the bring-budget way and preview my renders on my Panasonic Plasma (TX-P50VT30e) which tested the best in its field, when I bought it. But there is funding especially for printing out shorts, so I guess if we get it, there´ll be enough budget to hire a colorist aswell.

I was so sure, 5DtoRBG was free? But free or not, it really is slow. I tried it not long ago and it just ignores all but one of your cpu cores if my memory is correct.

Custom curves in Colorista, yeah. Good thinking! You could work around kind of with they keyer option, but that´s really backwards compared to real curves within the effect.

5DtoRGB does what FCP L&T can't, and I think NeoScene as well.
NeoScene does in fact up the color space to 422, at least opening it up to smooth grading, I am not sure if I understood you correctly there.

And yes, NeoScene came out on top for its de-interlacing, I remember now, it´s been a while. But even with my 25p footage these days I keep transforming to cineform just to releave my cpu.
 
I just got my test results processed, tested on smooth profile, high key key lighting on white bg,
transcodes with 5dtoRGB (rec 709 none none default)
0 0 -2 0
0 0 -1 0
0 0 0 0
0 0 1 0
0 0 2 0
-1 0 -2 0
-1 0 -1 0
-1 0 0 0
-1 0 1 0
-1 0 2 0
(sorry I don't want to post this footage as it was my 7yr daughter who was my test talent)
results: the color shifts are barely perceptible with 0000 being the best
testing nostalgia next
 
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sorry ! I was referring back to my post #80 where I mentioned I'm testing for the best skin tones.
Please note this is bright lights, high key, white bg so fo low light stuff it may not apply.
Based on 0000 being the best out of smooth I just did a comparison of
smooth 0000 vs natural 0000 vs nostalgic 0000 and natural was a clear winner
 
Kholi said:
Why are you using 0000 instead of all negative? Curious.
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I didn't think sharpening and noise reduction would affect the color so I tried to remove them from the equation by leaving them at zero.
The first set of combinations (post 85) I tried all saturation settings at contrast 0 and contrast -1 for Smooth. The results showed vary slight variations
with 0 0 0 0 being the best to my eye.

I then went on to compare Nature and Nostalgic to Smooth so I wanted Smooth to be at its best, 0000.

Posted some results (this time my son was the test talent)
http://jdmax.com/gh2-skin-tones-smooth-vs-nature-vs-nostalgic/


for reference : numbers reflect settings Contrast, Sharpness, Saturation, Noise Reduction
 
Ah. Remember, sharpening absolutely does affect color. It's an adjustment that affects contrast, and contrast affects color. You can't undo that after you record, but you can add it. Same thing with Noise Reduction, which I can already see is killing your detail. You definitely want to crank that down, as it also affects what you're seeing as far as resolved detail and color.

That's why we're all dialing things down, to remove the variables. Saturation is up in the air, that's why I'm at -1 instead of -2 or 0.
 
Thanks a ton for all your tests Kohli!

Could you share your exact settings when using 5DtoRGB, and any tips you may have for working with it in combination with FCPX?
 
Hey Kholi!

2 things:

I like your new comet blog, and I'm really looking forward to the 10K feature section getting up and running!

Also, sorry if it's been mentioned already, but how does the hacked gh2 compare with the 5D in lowlight. Have you done any tests? I'm amazed at how much better the gh2, and then the hacked gh2, handles lower light and higher ISOs.

THANKS!
 
Kholi said:
Ah. Remember, sharpening absolutely does affect color. It's an adjustment that affects contrast, and contrast affects color. You can't undo that after you record, but you can add it. Same thing with Noise Reduction, which I can already see is killing your detail. You definitely want to crank that down, as it also affects what you're seeing as far as resolved detail and color.

That's why we're all dialing things down, to remove the variables. Saturation is up in the air, that's why I'm at -1 instead of -2 or 0.
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I had no idea the gh2 sharpness and noise sliders would change the colors in skin tone !
Thanks, its now paramount that I test this to see to what degree
 
DevonH said:
Thanks a ton for all your tests Kohli!

Could you share your exact settings when using 5DtoRGB, and any tips you may have for working with it in combination with FCPX?
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I'll grab a still when I get to the Mac Tower tomorrow, but I am fairly sure it's:

ProRes
Rec 709
1.8
Everything else off

I haven't worked with FCPX, however, so I don't know how it behaves.

I'm working on updating the blog with a post workflow mini-guide soon here.

Hutchman said:
Hey Kholi!

2 things:

I like your new comet blog, and I'm really looking forward to the 10K feature section getting up and running!

Also, sorry if it's been mentioned already, but how does the hacked gh2 compare with the 5D in lowlight. Have you done any tests? I'm amazed at how much better the gh2, and then the hacked gh2, handles lower light and higher ISOs.

THANKS!
Click to expand...

Thanks Hutchman.

The same weekend I started testing the hack, I also went and shot a short/web pilot for another DVXuser member and we used 5Ds. It was a good experience being able to shoot both back to back and get back in touch with DSLRs in general. What seems to be the case is the 5D is cleaner at higher ISOs than the GH2, and naturally gathers more light in any case.

As it should, the larger sensor of course.

However, there's something to take into account: we discovered way back with the GH1 that the ISO readings scaled in comparison to the Canons at lower numbers. Like, 400 on the GH1 was similar to using 800 on the MKii I think it was. So if you apply the same thing to the GH2, then it makes sense that the 5D is cleaner at higher ISOs.

I am still not a huge fan of the macro blocking Canon footage, nor the resolution (or lack there of) but I would still shoot 5D in certain circumstances, to utilize the large sensor in tight spaces mostly.

I do think the Gh2 Hack completely out performs the 5D in every area outside of DR (which the 5D loses most of in the compression process, anyway), Sensor Size, and Picture Profile customizing options.

J Davis said:
I had no idea the gh2 sharpness and noise sliders would change the colors in skin tone !
Thanks, its now paramount that I test this to see to what degree
Click to expand...

Well, the Sharpness will affect the contrast, again, which affects color.

The Noise Reduction, on either end of the scale, will affect the noise characteristics which will affect how skin detail's handled. Part of acquiring accurate skin color's going to rely in the camera's ability to see the subtle colors in different shades of flesh. Green, Orange, Blues. I think the advanced user will have much better results removing noise in post, or even letting it remain, versus reducing it in camera.

However, that should be tested as well. How does the 0 - +2 range compare to denoising in post? I know one thing, it'll win as far as efficiency goes... Denoiser is a pain in the side to use in FCP. It's worth it, to me, just to convert the Chroma Noise into Luma or desaturated noise, but MAN does it take forever due to crashing etc.
 
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ETC MODE | 200 ISO | Cooke Kinetals (Matty_G) | Hot Rod PL Mount

Flaring like a mother, and highlights rolling off like butter. Mmmmm~

Disregard the mug shot, we were outside playing.
 
Smooth -2 -2 -1 -2

Didn't have time to start the film mode testing but will soon. Can't wait to finally be able to have one around at all times.
 
I'm really liking the grain patter nof ISO 800 as well as ETC mode. aAt 1600 ISO it really reminds me of 16mm film.
 
Have to agree, well at least as long as I'm using S16 glass, anyway. The Cooke Kinetals have a very nice look to them, but the Zeiss Superspeeds are fast as crap and I think just a hair sharper.

Itching to shoot a full on ETC mode short/project.
 
lol, you're going to need some 7mm lenses to get your wides on etc mode :)

ps, those two greys on your beard are very experienced hairs.
 
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