Bern Caughey
Veteran
Huge fan of the Cabrio 19-90mm.
Cine lens dilemma: Veydra mini-primes vs Sony Cine Altas
- Thread starter Parabola
- Start date
Huge fan of the Cabrio 19-90mm.
robmneilson
Veteran
Sorry for the late reply! The size and weight of the lenses are probably their biggest drawbacks. Makes it hard if you want to mount on a ronin without the bigger bracket etc. For a steadicam I've not had any problems due to the weight of the lens. All of them are the same length (except the 135mm) so it's so nice to make a lens change and have my follow focus, and mattebox dialed in and not need adjustment from lens to lens.
The bulky build quality saved my ass once. Had to promote someone to AC on a short film shoot, and while doing a lens change they DROPPED my 20mm onto the hard wood floor. Due to the metal housing, everything was fine, focus marks didn't even seem to be knocked off!
Thanks again to all who replied. As someone who doesn't have the knowledge or experience to contribute back to this forum in a meaningful way, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond anyway.
Back to the dilemma... Picking up a few good cine zooms seems to be a popular suggestion, and it does make a lot of sense given how often I'll be flying solo, but unfortunately these lenses are just out of reach due to budget constraints. Getting the green light to spend $20K (CAD) for pro gear that would last a lifetime was one thing, but asking for another 35K on top of that for a single lens like the Cabrio 19-90mm or whatever is sadly not going to happen. It would seem that good cine zooms truly are worth their weight in gold
So it looks like I will more than likely move on the Sony Cine Altas. In really fast-paced productions where having to repeatedly swap primes will be problematic, I will have to fall back on the Nikkor "holy trinity" (14-24, 24-70, and 70-200mm 2.8 glass) and try to make the most out of it.
As for adapting PL to E-mount, I know the Wooden Camera gear is highly acclaimed around here, but 1) my distributor doesn't have them listed as a supplier (and so I doubt they would source it), and 2) we're already getting a top plate with our Tilta FS7 rigs (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1119729-REG/ikan_es_t15_p_es_t15_camera_rig_with.html) and they don't really seem to be compatible from what I tell. So my options will most likely be the following:
Do any of you have any experience with any of these adapters? Tool-less is a nice to have, but by far the bigger concern is that the heft of these lenses will be properly supported at all times by a well-engineered support system... I also understand that the follow focus unit will place additional stress on the mount on top of the weight of the lenses.
Speaking of FF, has anyone bought or used the Tilta FF-T03? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/992628-REG/ikan_ff_t03_15mm_follow_focus_with.html
Appreciate any further comments before I pull the trigger on this stuff this week.
Back to the dilemma... Picking up a few good cine zooms seems to be a popular suggestion, and it does make a lot of sense given how often I'll be flying solo, but unfortunately these lenses are just out of reach due to budget constraints. Getting the green light to spend $20K (CAD) for pro gear that would last a lifetime was one thing, but asking for another 35K on top of that for a single lens like the Cabrio 19-90mm or whatever is sadly not going to happen. It would seem that good cine zooms truly are worth their weight in gold
So it looks like I will more than likely move on the Sony Cine Altas. In really fast-paced productions where having to repeatedly swap primes will be problematic, I will have to fall back on the Nikkor "holy trinity" (14-24, 24-70, and 70-200mm 2.8 glass) and try to make the most out of it.
As for adapting PL to E-mount, I know the Wooden Camera gear is highly acclaimed around here, but 1) my distributor doesn't have them listed as a supplier (and so I doubt they would source it), and 2) we're already getting a top plate with our Tilta FS7 rigs (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1119729-REG/ikan_es_t15_p_es_t15_camera_rig_with.html) and they don't really seem to be compatible from what I tell. So my options will most likely be the following:
- Vocas: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/808916-REG/Vocas_0900_0015_Sony_E_mount_to_PL.html
- Chrosziel: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/889112-REG/Chrosziel_c_pl_nex_34_Adapter_for_PL_Lenses.html
- Possibly this 16x9 option: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/808217-REG/16x9_Inc_169_CLM_PLE_S_Cine_Lens_Mount_with.html
- And probably this Metabones offering as well, though it doesn't really appear to be built as well as some of the others judging by the picture alone: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194555-REG/metabones_mb_pl_e_bt1_pl_to_e_mount_adapter.html
Do any of you have any experience with any of these adapters? Tool-less is a nice to have, but by far the bigger concern is that the heft of these lenses will be properly supported at all times by a well-engineered support system... I also understand that the follow focus unit will place additional stress on the mount on top of the weight of the lenses.
Speaking of FF, has anyone bought or used the Tilta FF-T03? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/992628-REG/ikan_ff_t03_15mm_follow_focus_with.html
Appreciate any further comments before I pull the trigger on this stuff this week.
robmneilson
Veteran
I've used Ciecio adapters from Ebay many times in the past. Very good quality, and he has great customer service: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PL-mount-le...7s-FS700-camera-ciecio7-adapter-/261118307777
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Vocas is coming out with a PL adapter support system for the FS7 that's similar to Wooden Camera's.
https://vimeo.com/146466569
If your opting for a rails based system consider Hot Rod Cameras'. Their PL adapters are extremely well built, & found in many rental houses. HRC provides exceptional customer service too.
http://hotrodcameras.com/cameras/pl-mounts-adapters/sony-e-mount-fs700-fs100-nex-7-etc.html
https://vimeo.com/146466569
If your opting for a rails based system consider Hot Rod Cameras'. Their PL adapters are extremely well built, & found in many rental houses. HRC provides exceptional customer service too.
http://hotrodcameras.com/cameras/pl-mounts-adapters/sony-e-mount-fs700-fs100-nex-7-etc.html
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Unless you have physically tried these lense (whichever brand) proceeding to purchase would be irresponsible - you should go to a dealer and play - while a lens set like the sony has upsides there are also downsides that may make them 100% useless for your production environment
I'm not even going to go into these reasons - get off the web go to a dealer
s
I'm not even going to go into these reasons - get off the web go to a dealer
s
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robmneilson
Veteran
I used the sony's to shoot this a few weeks ago: https://vimeo.com/148306338
every shot was wide open at t2, and i used mostly 20,25,35,50 on the shoot. Also had 1/2 glimmerglass to take some of the digital edge off.
every shot was wide open at t2, and i used mostly 20,25,35,50 on the shoot. Also had 1/2 glimmerglass to take some of the digital edge off.
oron cohen
Member
I really think you will be better off by buying a zoom.
one of the best cinema budget zoom that is very underestimated is the RED 17-50 V2 PL mount which goes used for about 5-6K US, it's very small and light weight, it's parfocal, it got good focus marks and you could defiantly pull focus yourself. although it's not near the quality of a Angie or Fujinon/Arri cine zooms, it's a very nice upgrade from say still zooms, like Nikon or Canon. you could also pair it with the RED 50-150 OR you can add two fast primes like a 50mm&85mm Zeiss CP2 super speeds or Schneider xenon FF or even RED Pro primes.
Next will be the Angenieux DP zoom, 16-42 or the 30-80 or both if you can get a bargain. seen some on sell for about 20K for both, or 12-13K for one. beautiful glass.
again, all used of course.
Without an AC around, I'll personally would not opt for the heavy and big Sony's, which are fantastic lenses btw, if you're still not sure, go and rent for a day shoot some lenses that are more or less same size and weight, only one's I can think of are Master Primes, but maybe there others that are similar in size?
one of the best cinema budget zoom that is very underestimated is the RED 17-50 V2 PL mount which goes used for about 5-6K US, it's very small and light weight, it's parfocal, it got good focus marks and you could defiantly pull focus yourself. although it's not near the quality of a Angie or Fujinon/Arri cine zooms, it's a very nice upgrade from say still zooms, like Nikon or Canon. you could also pair it with the RED 50-150 OR you can add two fast primes like a 50mm&85mm Zeiss CP2 super speeds or Schneider xenon FF or even RED Pro primes.
Next will be the Angenieux DP zoom, 16-42 or the 30-80 or both if you can get a bargain. seen some on sell for about 20K for both, or 12-13K for one. beautiful glass.
again, all used of course.
Without an AC around, I'll personally would not opt for the heavy and big Sony's, which are fantastic lenses btw, if you're still not sure, go and rent for a day shoot some lenses that are more or less same size and weight, only one's I can think of are Master Primes, but maybe there others that are similar in size?
robmneilson
Veteran
I've got the older Red 18-50 zoom, which is not mechanically as good as the 17-50, but it's a very good budget option for you. It's not my favorite lens, but it's worked on a ton of jobs with good results. I think I paid $2500 for it a little while back, so it's extemely affordable.
bill totolo
Veteran
Not that you need more opinions but I think the best approach would be to have a nice long zoom with fast primes for lowlight, shallow dof work.
Zooms I like include the Cooke 18-100, should be about $10K used but you'll need a bigger matte box and lens support, possibly 19mm rods.
Angenieux Optimos as mentioned, and a great budget performer are the Red zooms, particularly the 17-50 v2 coupled with the 50-150. Of course there's a few companies offering rehoused Nikon and Canon 70-200's as well.
For primes, I'm really falling for the Celere HS lenses. I know everyone is concerned about breathing but it's minimal in my use in the field, and they look really good wide open at T1.5 in a vintage/modern hybrid way.
Best of luck.
Zooms I like include the Cooke 18-100, should be about $10K used but you'll need a bigger matte box and lens support, possibly 19mm rods.
Angenieux Optimos as mentioned, and a great budget performer are the Red zooms, particularly the 17-50 v2 coupled with the 50-150. Of course there's a few companies offering rehoused Nikon and Canon 70-200's as well.
For primes, I'm really falling for the Celere HS lenses. I know everyone is concerned about breathing but it's minimal in my use in the field, and they look really good wide open at T1.5 in a vintage/modern hybrid way.
Best of luck.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
The op is. "MOstly one man band" shooting and people are suggesting zooms that are serious mass. Sounds like pure lunacy to me. Has anyone here ever actually shot anything ?
my choice was one a older cinevised version of this bad boy;
http://www.ducloslenses.com/collections/angenieux-zooms/products/optimo-style-30-76mm-t2-8
and six of these;
http://www.ducloslenses.com/collections/rokinon-primes/products/rokinon-cine-ds-pro-set
the Ange mid zoom is pretty small and light, still needs support, but it can be pretty minimal support
http://www.ducloslenses.com/collections/angenieux-zooms/products/optimo-style-30-76mm-t2-8
and six of these;
http://www.ducloslenses.com/collections/rokinon-primes/products/rokinon-cine-ds-pro-set
the Ange mid zoom is pretty small and light, still needs support, but it can be pretty minimal support
robmneilson
Veteran
That's a nice zoom, I'd imagine that the optical quality of it is going to blow away those Rok primes!
*Update* So I've got a couple of PMs asking what decision we made WRT the lenses. I thought I would update this thread in case others coming across it might be interested to know as well.
We decided to invest in high end glass that would last us for many years and move with us from camera body to camera body. We bought the Sony CineAlta 4K 6-piece Prime Lens Kit at a heavily-discounted price and, so far, the results have been blowing everyone away. Granted, we're coming from the DSLR world so it's a big step up from low bitrate / highly-compressed footage shot on DSLR glass to where we are now. I think the combination of the CineAlta lenses with the FS7 is simply amazing for the price. In fact, I would have a hard time believing someone if they told me this combo couldn't hang (in terms of picture quality) with setups costing tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars more. Now, I am a relative newb around these parts so it's possible that statement just shows how little I really know, but damn... image is really that nice!
On rigging, we ended up getting the Vocas Universal Base Plate Mk ii (http://www.vocas.com/accessories/usbp-15-mkii) and E-mount to PL adapter with rod support (http://www.vocas.com/accessories/sony-e-mount-to-pl-adapter-including-15mm-support). I have mostly good things to say about these products. The machining and build quality is very good, however I feel like they have some "design quirks" that are a bit frustrating (like "wing nuts" that can't be tightened down easily because they hit another part of the base plate ). But I guess there's no such thing as a perfect product so it's just something we'll have to learn to deal with.
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in here!
We decided to invest in high end glass that would last us for many years and move with us from camera body to camera body. We bought the Sony CineAlta 4K 6-piece Prime Lens Kit at a heavily-discounted price and, so far, the results have been blowing everyone away. Granted, we're coming from the DSLR world so it's a big step up from low bitrate / highly-compressed footage shot on DSLR glass to where we are now. I think the combination of the CineAlta lenses with the FS7 is simply amazing for the price. In fact, I would have a hard time believing someone if they told me this combo couldn't hang (in terms of picture quality) with setups costing tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars more. Now, I am a relative newb around these parts so it's possible that statement just shows how little I really know, but damn... image is really that nice!
On rigging, we ended up getting the Vocas Universal Base Plate Mk ii (http://www.vocas.com/accessories/usbp-15-mkii) and E-mount to PL adapter with rod support (http://www.vocas.com/accessories/sony-e-mount-to-pl-adapter-including-15mm-support). I have mostly good things to say about these products. The machining and build quality is very good, however I feel like they have some "design quirks" that are a bit frustrating (like "wing nuts" that can't be tightened down easily because they hit another part of the base plate ). But I guess there's no such thing as a perfect product so it's just something we'll have to learn to deal with.
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in here!
oron cohen
Member
Not sure who you are referring to, but I suggested the RED Zooms, the 17-50 is about the same size or little bigger then one Sony prime lens, the Angie DP zoom are also very small, more or less the same weight as ONE sony prime (about 2kg), I've shot extensively on both, and while I'm not sure if I take both over the sony if shooting without an AC, I'll defiantly do proper testing before I buy, I wonder what would have happen if the OP have actually gone to a Rental house and test as many lenses possible? including Angie and also CP2.
p.s I did saw someone mentioned the Cooke 20-100 which is a big lens, even though it's a no go for run&gun it's absolutely possible to use it shooting in a studio with a small crew and no AC, I shot so many things with it, and it's such a beautiful "Cooke look" lens, you just need someone to help you to lift it and connect it to the camera
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Not sure who you are referring to, but I suggested the RED Zooms, the 17-50 is about the same size or little bigger then one Sony prime lens, the Angie DP zoom are also very small, more or less the same weight as ONE sony prime (about 2kg), I've shot extensively on both, and while I'm not sure if I take both over the sony if shooting without an AC, I'll defiantly do proper testing before I buy, I wonder what would have happen if the OP have actually gone to a Rental house and test as many lenses possible? including Angie and also CP2.
p.s I did saw someone mentioned the Cooke 20-100 which is a big lens, even though it's a no go for run&gun it's absolutely possible to use it shooting in a studio with a small crew and no AC, I shot so many things with it, and it's such a beautiful "Cooke look" lens, you just need someone to help you to lift it and connect it to the camera
Not to take us down another road, but to add, the Cooke 20-100 is a 1970's lens, and the much newer (1980's) 18-100 is much better. If considering a 20-100, PLEASE test an 18-100. It's my favorite vintage zoom. It still has that great vintage look but let me tell you the 20-100 has to many issues or the vintage quality is too extreme. FWIW
As far as being heavy, it's a studio zoom, but not too bad around 11-12lbs, if I'm not wrong. It isn't light but there is far worse out there. If you want to talk about needing help lifting it to the camera, look at the Zeiss Master Zoom which is 25lbs and Angie 24-290 is 26lbs.
