choosing a stabilizer

P

powerdog

Veteran
In general, do you have to pick 2 of these 3:

1. Price
2. Stability
3. Perceived lightness

Wondering because it seems to me the ideal would be something that doesn't require an Arnold Schwartzenegger to hold, doesn't cost a fortune, and gives you nice, smooth tracking shots. But I'm guessing there are tradeoffs.

Also, do the ones that include a waist harness tend to be less fatiguing? This would be for a DVX100a.
 
I've looked around on the web, and it looks like the Glidecam Smooth Shooter is the way to go. Anyone have an opinion on it?
 
What's your budget?

I am currently looking at the Tiffen Flyer and the Glidecam V25, although there are no V25s around to demo at the moment.
 
The cost of the GC SS would be a major investment for me, and I certainly don't have mid-to-high thousands of $$$. But I think it might be worth it, and would pay for itself over time.
 
I love my Glidecam, can't beat it for the price. Stay away from the steady tracker. I bought one and it sucks, for the just about same price I could have bought my Glidecam.
 
For the DVX and a couple of accesories (nothing overly heavy, so no rods or matteboxes..), I'd sugest the Merlin as a great option. As well as beeing super sturdy, it's *really* light. Which, as you mentioned, is what counts for a handheld rig. (It can't keep it steady if you can't carry it, right?)
It seems pricey for how big it is, but it's well worth it. Like a tripod (or anything else), don't go too cheap, it will cost you more in the end.

Going up to the vest size, if you want to carry more, I'd definatly recomend the Flyer. Just ask those who have one, I doubt you could find a negative review.

There are definatly cheaper "options" - though I wouldn't call them equals. Just as any business, you get what you pay for.

Keep us posted on your desicision process, Love to hear what, and how, you decide.

- Mikko
 
Is it possible to do a static shots (like interviews) and dispose of the tripod completely?

Also, if you're a one-person crew, how do you mic the subject? Just use a wireless lav?
 
Practically speaking: no.
You will still normally wobble the camera a little bit, regardless of the system after a few moments. Though 'lockoffs' are stadard operating practice, a Steadicam is no replacement for a tripod.

Oh yeah, the Merlin does come with a little tripod adapter so you can very quickly switch teh camera back and forth (about 5 secconds each way).

As for audio. you are correct that you will not want any wires going to the camera, especially with the little rigs (operators with 50lbs+ of camera gear complain about having a little thin wire added)
A wireless Lav is indeed the best bet. - Be sure to get a system that allows you to use the transmitter on any mic, so you cna aldo adapt it to get a feed from an outboard mixer to the camera, for example.

- Mikko
 
powerdog said:
In general, do you have to pick 2 of these 3:

1. Price
2. Stability
3. Perceived lightness

Wondering because it seems to me the ideal would be something that doesn't require an Arnold Schwartzenegger to hold, doesn't cost a fortune, and gives you nice, smooth tracking shots. But I'm guessing there are tradeoffs.

Also, do the ones that include a waist harness tend to be less fatiguing? This would be for a DVX100a.
Click to expand...
"Perceived lightness" is the #1 enemy of image stabilization. Light = easy to wobble and shake ==> unfluid tracks. The rig *needs* to be heavy, hence the absolute necessity to wear a harness. I've never managed to produce anything really clean with a hand-held one.

This being said, there's heavy and heavy. I myself use a French-made "Aigle" (Eagle), which --I say this for our friends in Europe-- is distributed in most European countries, including the UK and Scandinavia. It is also way less expensive than Glidecams and Steadicams. You can have a look here : http://www.laigleparis.fr/ (click on the English flag for a complete description in that language). There are also a few clips that you can download.

Hope this helps.
 
Monglane, so it needs to be heavy, but with a harness you don't need to be particularly strong?

That Aigle looks nice, but I guess it's not distributed in the US.
 
Just to chime in, I had the same debates that you are having regarding stabilizers. Mikko was a huge help to me, although in the end I ended up ignoring his advice. That being said, I wish I had taken his advice. Like you, he suggested the Merlin. Because of price and "I want this now" I ended up going for a Glidecam 4000.

I am not saying that the Glidecam is not a good tool, but you need to be aware of what you are getting and what you are not getting with the Glidecam. Here are the negatives:
1. Weight - This thing is heavy as hell with a wireless adapter, high cap battery, and balanced correctly. About five minutes worth of use is the max you are going to get before your wrist hurts (this is without owning a vest system or the arm brace)
2. Balancing - complete and total *****. It takes a long time to be able to balancing this thing correctly. What I finally did was buy some metal piping and building a stand, but that is still a pain in the ass. Furthermore, I have a quick release plate on there and that still requires adjustments.
3. Training - like anything else, it requires work to get good with this thing. I am not to that point yet.
4. Practicality - I turn to my dolly more often than my Glidecam, and sometimes it's just easier and more desirable to shoot handheld

Now the good:
1. Price - The GC4000 is cheap (www.glidecamdealer.com - I ordered from them, had it in 2 days, free shipping, and great communication)
2. Size - it isn't Merlin small, but it is a good size and easy to pack up
3. Gimbal - it's got a real gimbal

Ultimately, if I could do it again, no, I would not buy another Glidecam. I have had mine for 6 weeks, used it on two shoots, and it just sits there in the corner. I am planning on getting the smooth shooter for it, because like I said, it is heavy as ****. We'll see what a difference that ends up making.
 
I'm afraid the Aigle is indeed not yet distributed in the US at this time. I've made a web page detailing setup and balance here : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/cinedv/steadicam.htm (text in French, but many pictures).

You don't need to be particularly strong when you wear a well-designed harness, because the weight is well distributed over your back. I've never weighed my gear but my guesstimate is it weighs about 15-17 kilograms, and I can use it comfortably for at least 15-20 minutes non-stop before I'm happy to put it back on its stand (and I have no physical training whatsoever).
 
That's a good question. Part of me wants to just say, yeah, no doubt, I'm going with Mikkos opinion and getting the Merlin like I should have in the first place. Then again, I still am holding onto the belief that if I add the smooth shooter (for a massive $1500) that this Glidecam rig can be the answer that I'm looking for. All that being said, if I could do it all over again I would actually love a Steadicam Flyer. Every review has been incredible, but the $6000 plus batteries makes it really expensive.

This is a hard question because on the one hand you have a price concen and on the other hand how user friendly a rig is.

The Merlin looks the easiest to balance and the best as far as initial weight. For me availability was an issue, but I would love to have a Merlin over my Glidecam.

Then again, I might be willing to sell my Glidecam...
 
I downloaded the Merlin brochure, and it looks like the guy in the photos would be holding about 7 lbs total at arm's length. Whoa...then again, he'd beat me in an arm wrestling contest in about 2 nanoseconds.
 
Just have to ask: I saw that the Steadicam Flyer is highly praised in another thread, but it's about 3x the cost of the Glidecam SS. Looks similar, too. Is it really that different?
 
Hmm, lots of interesting points I'd like to address..

Yankee, how much does your GC4k weigh all set up and balanced with the DVX? I can't recall ever having done the math on that.
THe SS will definatly help you last longer with the GC... longer in fact than with the merlin on it's own (obviously) but it will be more restrictive.

Monglane, through my French reading isn't up to scratch, you instruction page looks good. However I'd strongly sugest that you try the monitor in line with the back of the sled. Turnign it off axis liek that will ve you all sorts of problems. For example it will make dynamic balance impossible and give you trouble while panning.
Also, you might want to loosed up yrou grip even more with both yrou hands. THere's abit of swaying going on int eh video that indicates you are holding too tight. And in teh stills your right hand looks like a bit of a death grip on the handle.
Good stuff tho.

Powerdog, yes it's really that different.
Socket block, double section arm (which is fantastic btw) with a huge boom rnage and can handle running. a good sled (with a much easier to adjsut topstage, and allready cabled for video) and monitor and battery mounts included. The flyer is also set up ready for low mode, has a sliding gimble for more flexible balance, and has a higher capacity range too. I regularly fly a broadcast camera on a Flyer.


Also in general. Yes, the idea is to increase inertia to make the rig more stable.
You can either add weight, or move the compoenets apart. Either way works. The trick with a good stabilizer is to spread the weight to add inertia, while keeping it light enough to carry and operate.
Thanks to the laws of physics, we can scale everything up or down as we wish, based on the size of the camera. However can not scale our influence over the rig. And of course buidling practices only have limitied precision too.
A super light rig, like a Merlin, can work just as well as a big heavy rig like the Ultra, provided the operator can steer the rig only as much as necesary. Just as a VW bug and a Semi can both drive on the same roads - though one needs a little more cranking on the steering wheel to make it turn.
A full (body mounted) rig will not neceseraly be any more stable than a handheld rig, thouhg it will help you carry more, while being more restrictive too.


Anyone who has spoken to me or read my posts on the forum knows that I'm a fan of the original Steadicam brand. At the moment I still think they are the best in many ways, though others are makign fantastic rigs and closign the gap pretty quickly too, they just arn't there -yet.


What's the best rig? easy. It's the rig that works for you.

- Mikko
 
mikkowilson said:
Monglane, through my French reading isn't up to scratch, you instruction page looks good. However I'd strongly sugest that you try the monitor in line with the back of the sled. Turnign it off axis liek that will ve you all sorts of problems. For example it will make dynamic balance impossible and give you trouble while panning.
Also, you might want to loosed up yrou grip even more with both yrou hands. THere's abit of swaying going on int eh video that indicates you are holding too tight. And in teh stills your right hand looks like a bit of a death grip on the handle.
Good stuff tho.
Click to expand...

Hello Mikko,

Yes, I did give up on the monitor-not-in-line thing. It's one of the downsides of the Aigle : the monitor should sit on a longer "arm" so that the sled will not impair the operator's view of it. I got so sick of having the sled in the middle of the frame that I actually moved the arm to the left side of the vest, enabling me to use the camera's LCD to frame... Now, it works just great !

I should update my page to reflect this... but it's just too cold and snowy outside to take pictures right now ! :laugh:

I also learned to loosen even more my "driving" hand's grip on the sled. The way I balance it now, I almost leave it alone and I get very fluid movements, even though I don't practice every day !

The little clip I uploaded was shot as I was trying the stabilizer for the third time in my life (this is explained in the French text), so that's why I wasn't very proficient with it yet... Not that I really am now, but things have definitely improved a lot !
 
I'm amazed at the variation in prices...it's almost like asking what a car costs. Could be a Pinto or a Rolls. More than a factor of 10. But then, that's true of videocams, mics, tripods....I guess it's not so unusual!

So, 2 very basic questions:

assuming a camera of the DVX100's weight, what are the factors in deciding between a handheld and a vest-equipped stabilizer?

given that the Flyer is better than the Glidecam SS, do you notice the difference more in the shooting experience or in the footage you shoot? (Could you tell the difference between shots done with each?)
 
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