Chinese 2K RAW S35 Cinema Camera, 8000 dollars

Interesting... but I just can't do it. If you look at the cut plastic around the audio inputs and on the back it just looks like it's hacked togeather; thus the very basic form factor. It may produce a fantastic image for a few months but I gaurantee this thing is going to break on you and good luck getting great customer support.
 
This camera is over 6 months from delivery. I'm pretty sure that you're looking at a prototype.

Kindredmachine said:
Interesting... but I just can't do it. If you look at the cut plastic around the audio inputs and on the back it just looks like it's hacked togeather; thus the very basic form factor. It may produce a fantastic image for a few months but I gaurantee this thing is going to break on you and good luck getting great customer support.
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> I'm not sure how many places up here in San Francisco still do movie rentals, I can look into "Kino 4 bank head" rentals.

DTC has more kinos than you can shake a stick at:

http://www.dtcgrip.com/Rentals/rentalcover.htm

They are just a an exit or two from Chater Camera. John Chater is a nice guy and has many cameras in house that you could even use to compare to (Epic, Alexa, F3, Phantom, AF100...) He's also got a 4-bank in house. I'm sure he'd be up for a test.

http://www.chatercamera.com/index.htm
 
Dan Hudgins said:
Another problem with viewing the results is that I am using a high quality grading CRT monitor because it does not change with head position, but if you are viewing the results off a LCD monitor what you see may not match how I have graded the results because colors are hard to see exactly the same shade and hue using different monitors and different room lighting etc.
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To be honest, this is a problem with anything that anyone views anywhere - even in theaters. I doubt many silver screens would match the DI suite. And I know most everyone's iPad, laptop, Plasmas, etc are not calibrated to spec.

I think the only way to really exhibit what a RAW camera can do is to release a RAW file (even if it's just a frame) and de-bayer software. This is what RED has been doing for quite some time (though not exclusively) - download the .R3D (free), open in RedCine-Pro (free) and take a peek at what's possible.
 
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Dan Hudgins said:
As far as I know, there is NO uncompressed Bayer DNG output option from Epic (tm), even though they claim that they have a "lossless" compression option that drops the compression down to about 2.5:1(?).
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The mathematically lossless mode will be close to 2.5:1 at fairly normal data entropy levels, but will end up being 1:1 at high data entropy levels (like completely random noise). It's comparable to what would happen if you put an uncompressed RAW file in a ZIP archive.
 
Dan,

Thanks for the reply - would you mind posting a direct link to the download page for your software? I'm afraid I've been browsing about on your website for almost ten minutes now and all I can seem to find is a lot of information and instructions (not even the download itself) for DANCAD3D - which I assume is your 3D CAD program - and many paragraphs of copyright, warnings, and references to the Terms of Use.

As for getting test footage from the cameras - I would think a camera rental house or production company with those cameras should be able to let you spend a bit of time making a couple of tests of a MacBeth charts under different lighting conditions.

And no, no uncompressed RAW from RED. It's kind of against part of their paradigm - why have 4-10 times the data rate if the end footage is practically visually identical. I wouldn't expect Uncompressed RAW from RED any time soon. Mathematically lossless, perhaps, but now right now.
 
Thanks, Dan. I'm not used to dealing with websites that have a structure like yours! Unfortunately, I'm in a Mac-centric environment here...any chance you'll be developing for OSX?

Re: RED - I don't think they are interested in putting out a 4x-SSD option right now. Last word on the 2.5x mathematically lossless mode was that it might "come later" and that, right now, huge VFX-filled studio features were very pleased with REDCODE 5:1. The previous uncompressed shots (Milk Girls) were actually from their beta camera, before they had REDCODE working. So is it possible for RED to make their cameras shoot uncompressed? I'm sure it is. But will they offer an affordable uncompressed or mathematically lossless ability soon? I don't think so. It seems very few people have found much about the 4:1 and 5:1 ratios to quibble about.

I agree with you regarding product development. I think there was a time with film cameras and with the traditional rental business that a new camera with significantly different features was not something that would happen all that often. Of course, now, it happens almost yearly on cameras which cost anywhere from 1/5 to 1/2 as much; so little that many production companies are choosing to own, rather than rent. And it's one of the reasons that I think we will see companies doing some very interesting things in the future as their roadmaps require more frequent release intervals.

I also agree heartily with the idea that 2K isn't really what we are looking for here, unless 720p is the desired "finish". 2K makes a great 720p. 3K makes a great 2K. And 5K makes a great 4K.

And I don't know about printing to film and projecting that way. It seems - at least near me - most everything is going digital. Only the purposefully "artistic" screenings - the 15 minute long, hand-held natural light, black and white, silent film about a bowl of waters - are projected in film. Everything else gets a digital master because its easier (and usually cheaper) for everyone.

And people have such divergent needs now, it's hard to create one test that would prove quality for everyone. A lot of people deliver web content, which will be compressed so heavily that 4K footage and 720p (DSLR) footage can end up matching pretty closely. At the opposite end of the spectrum, some people are shooting footage suitable for HDTV delivery, theatre promos, and large-scale high quality print work all at once on one camera. And there's everything in between.
 
Thanks for the reply, Dan. Too bad you aren't looking for a commercial release for your software. I think a good third-party software that handles RAW well would be very well received over the next few years.
 
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