Cheap lavaliers for the Tascam DR-40

C

colinut

Member
First of all Hello! to all (I'm new on the forum) and I have been reading with great interest the stickies and previous posts related to this subject and your posts have cleared up a lot of confusion that I had in regards to what lav mics should work with my new DR-40.
Since there has been some good discussion on the subject before, so far I understand that:


- The only external mic inputs for the device are the XLR inputs, (the 1/4 inputs being line inputs).

- The device provides 24/48v Phantom Power (as stated in manual) so any microphone used, should accept this voltage.

- To get the Rode VideoMic to work with the device you need a Rode adapter so I bought this today:
http://www.askdirect.co.uk/Digital-C...ign=googlebase
I guess it's safe to assume that since the videomic has a 9v battery unit integrated, it will not need Phantom Power, but just a simple adapter to sort out the wiring (which is what I bought)


1. Providing that the above is correct :) is it safe to assume that cheap lavaliers such as the Olympus ME-15 will not work with the device? The Olympus requires 10v power.
Would the ATR-3350 (which has it's on power box) work using that Rode converter I bought or will I just have to plug it into the 1/4 jack (line input) since it's powered?

2. I also wanted to purchase a lav from GiantSquid but Darren emailed me to say that none of his mics will work with the device as it will fry them (they only accept 10v). So I guess there is a difference between "plug-in power" and "Phantom Power", the first being 10v and the later 24/48v?

Many thanks for your time, I realise I might be asking a lot of questions...
Greetings from the UK!
 
"The only external mic inputs for the device are the XLR inputs, (the 1/4 inputs being line inputs)"
-- That would be correct for the H4n... the DR-40's XLR & 1/4 TRS combo connector are wired in series, so either could be used mic or line level.

"I guess it's safe to assume that since the videomic has a 9v battery unit integrated, it will not need Phantom Power, but just a simple adapter to sort out the wiring"
-- I don't think much of the Videomic, but yes, it should work, the DR40's Phantom Pwr. should definitely be OFF.
Plug-in power and Phantom Pwr. are totally different and not X-compatible, Yes applying Phantom Pwr to a plug-pwr mic could fry it big time.

"is it safe to assume that cheap lavaliers such as the Olympus ME-15 will not work with the device?
-- Not unless it has it's own battery power and an adaptor, even then look elsewhere

Lavs: nothing 'cheap' is going to be very good... (depending on your definition of cheap) I recommend the Oscar SoundTech mics, www.oscarsoundtech which are 'affordable' and a highly regarded professional mic. You would want a Phantom Power or battery adapter no matter what lav you choose. (except a dynamic lav.. which ain't recommended) The Rode lav is also good, as is the Countryman B3 and Tram.
Search for my comments on OST mics here, the DVi forum and JW audio group discussions.. I believe they ship to the UK.
 
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I also have a DR40 and spent the last few days looking at the same issue, even going so far as to email Giant Squid. I came across this outfit www.micronic.co.uk and ordered one mono and one stereo xlr 48v phantom power llavaliers. There's a review of their cheaper mics here www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpXKt6epLMU and they sound pretty good. The mics should be here in a few days and I'll happily post a review on arrival.
 
colinut said:
...
1. Providing that the above is correct :) is it safe to assume that cheap lavaliers such as the Olympus ME-15 will not work with the device? The Olympus requires 10v power.
Would the ATR-3350 (which has it's on power box) work using that Rode converter I bought or will I just have to plug it into the 1/4 jack (line input) since it's powered?
Click to expand...
The 3350 would work using the Rode adapter but be absolutely certain not to engage phantom power on the recorder ... doing so could damage the phantom supply in the Tascam.

2. I also wanted to purchase a lav from GiantSquid but Darren emailed me to say that none of his mics will work with the device as it will fry them (they only accept 10v). So I guess there is a difference between "plug-in power" and "Phantom Power", the first being 10v and the later 24/48v?
Click to expand...
 Not only is the voltage different but the actual assignment of the conductors is different in phantom power versus plug-in power. The two are totally incompatible.

You may find you're not satisfied with the quality of sound you get from such bargain-basement lavs. Another viable approach is to use a better quality lav such as would ordinarily be used with a wireless and get a power supply / XLR adapter unit that converts the phantom supply to the normal lac mic voltage. On such unit is the "Eumel" from Ambient http://www.ambient.de/en/productsambient-recording/mic-power-supply/emp.html You could, for example, order one of many professional lav mics available on the market wired for the Sennheiser G-3 wireless and use it with the EMP3.5 Eumel to convert it for use with your XLR input and phantom power. Admittedly this isn't the bargain approach ... the Eumel is $130 or so on top of the cost of the mic but it is an approach that lets you use high quality lavs with your recorder.
 
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Instead of possibly damaging your recorder or mics, why not just go for the MXL FR-355K lavalier kit - that's 2 XLR lavs (an omni and a cardioid) for under $90. Yes, they'll have more self noise than the higher end lavs. How much hiss? You can hear exactly what it sounds like with the Tascam DR-40 at 4:28

 
Wow I'm overwhelmed with the response, thank you all very much for responding. I'm doing some more ressearch and hopefully decide what to get soon. Before I make a purchase I'll run it past you guys again. Thanks :)

Rick R said:
I recommend the Oscar SoundTech mics, www.oscarsoundtech which are 'affordable' and a highly regarded professional mic. ip to the UK.
Click to expand...
Couldn't find prices on their website so I'll do some searching to find out where they sell. Thanks.

Inveresk said:
I also have a DR40 and spent the last few days looking at the same issue, even going so far as to email Giant Squid. I came across this outfit www.micronic.co.uk and ordered one mono and one stereo xlr 48v phantom power llavaliers.
Click to expand...
Seems their web is down but I'll keep trying. Thanks for the suggestion.

Keep them coming :)
 
Guy_Cochran said:
Instead of possibly damaging your recorder or mics, why not just go for the MXL FR-355K lavalier kit - that's 2 XLR lavs (an omni and a cardioid) for under $90.
Click to expand...

Good suggestion. Would have to ask my relatives in US to get these since in rip-off Britain you can buy them in only one place and (you guessed it) they are £112 ($180).
 
colinut said:
Couldn't find prices on their website so I'll do some searching to find out where they sell. Thanks.


Seems their web is down but I'll keep trying. Thanks for the suggestion.

Keep them coming :)
Click to expand...

They're also on ebay.co.uk. Here's a link to one of their mono lavs.. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270530378610&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:3160

And a stereo lav. . . .http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48-VOLT-P...K_Photography_Microphones&hash=item3f0629db8b

You'll save a few bucks by going to the Micronics web site.
 
OST in most instances does not sell through the usual suspect retailers and sell mostly direct, which also keeps the price down. You will have to contact OST via their website, Dave will email you a price list and would be more than happy to answer any questions and about shipping to the UK.

Don't know much about the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Micronic lav..[/FONT] The clip and such appear to be flimsy, but the price is low and it may work OK for you. for a while anyway.
 
Rick R said:
OST in most instances does not sell through the usual suspect retailers and sell mostly direct, which also keeps the price down. You will have to contact OST via their website, Dave will email you a price list and would be more than happy to answer any questions and about shipping to the UK.

Don't know much about the Micronic lav.. The clip and such appear to be flimsy, but the price is low and it may work OK for you. for a while anyway.
Click to expand...

Emailed Dave. Cheers!
 
Inveresk said:
They're also on ebay.co.uk. Here's a link to one of their mono lavs.. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270530378610&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:3160

And a stereo lav. . . .http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48-VOLT-P...K_Photography_Microphones&hash=item3f0629db8b

You'll save a few bucks by going to the Micronics web site.
Click to expand...

Did you order the "Professional" version or the standard? Looking forward to hear what you think of the quality once you receive it.
 
colinut said:
Did you order the "Professional" version or the standard? Looking forward to hear what you think of the quality once you receive it.
Click to expand...

I ordered the ones I provided links to above. The mono cost about 32 pounds and the stereo about 70 pounds. I decided to give them a try based on the sound sample of their bargain basement lav. on Geekanoids web site which only cost a few pounds. I'll post a sample from both the stereo and mono lavs once they're here, and on build quality of the mic and accessories.

Here's a link to their web site that does work. http://micronic.esellution.co.uk/store
 
Rick R said:
Lavs: nothing 'cheap' is going to be very good... (depending on your definition of cheap) I recommend the Oscar SoundTech mics, www.oscarsoundtech which are 'affordable' and a highly regarded professional mic.
Click to expand...
Turns out their mics don't take Phantom Power directly and you need to get one hardwired to their Power Supply to step the voltage down. This pushes the total price closer to the $200 mark. I still think it's a fair price for a quality mic, it's just that the money is quite tight at the moment and I'll need to settle for something around $100/£60 mark.
 
Inveresk said:
I ordered the ones I provided links to above. The mono cost about 32 pounds and the stereo about 70 pounds. I decided to give them a try based on the sound sample of their bargain basement lav. on Geekanoids web site which only cost a few pounds. I'll post a sample from both the stereo and mono lavs once they're here, and on build quality of the mic and accessories.
Click to expand...

Has it arrived? :)
Looking forward to your review.
 
I've been working with boomed sound mostly, but have been constantly on the lookout for some lavs with which to augment my kit for the crazier situations like small crew, wide and close-up cameras running simultaneously, et. al. Those FR-355K's seem like they're do the trick nicely!

I considered the R0DE and OST as well, and was about to pick up the R0DE, even though a mite more expensive than the OST (with XLR attenuation) when I stumbled across this post. With an omni AND a cardioid in the kit, I can experiment to my heart's content. My thought is that I'll continue to boom and sweeten the vocal clarity with the lav mic. I'll field mix the lavs down to one channel and keep the boom in its own channel most of the time. Well, that's my thought... experimentation will teach me plenty, I'm sure, and every environment will be its own unique jungle of opportunity as well.
 
DaivRawks said:
.. My thought is that I'll continue to boom and sweeten the vocal clarity with the lav mic. I'll field mix the lavs down to one channel and keep the boom in its own channel most of the time. Well, that's my thought... experimentation will teach me plenty, I'm sure, and every environment will be its own unique jungle of opportunity as well.
Click to expand...
Keep lavs and boom on separate tracks all the time. Trying to mix them in the field is just asking for phasing problems due to arrival time differences. In fact the best practice is to mix nothing in the field, putting each mic on its on dedicated track, even the lavs.
 
The FR355K's are not getting many good reviews. People stress that you get what you pay for, which is fair.
I'll be waiting for Inveresk's opinion of the Micronic mics, otherwise I think I'll save up for the Rode.
 
As near as anyone can tell (absent ANY significant description on the Rode website! :angry:) the Rode VXLR adapter does NOT provide "plug-in power" via the 3.5mm input jack.

HOWEVER there are products that you can plug into an XLR input with 24-48V phantom power and they provide propler 5~10V "plug-in power" via the 3.5mm input jack. For example:

http://www.naiant.com/naiant/inlinedevices.html "PFA" at the bottom of the page.
 
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