Carbon fiber source

Car3o said:
Why are places charging so much for carbon fiber rails?
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The same reason that any of the big adapter makers or Zacuto or anybody else charges what they do, because people will pay it.

People got all pissed off when I mentioned that the Indirails and Cinevate matteboxes were made in India and could be had for half the price that Cinevate was charging. Whatever, cognitive dissonance makes people believe what fits their belief system. If they believe that a company is there to help them out and support them as part of the 35mm community, then they'll pay too much for something that could be had for less and be happy to do it.

Thanks for the link, BTW. :thumbup:
 
Texanite said:
The same reason that any of the big adapter makers or Zacuto or anybody else charges what they do, because people will pay it.

People got all pissed off when I mentioned that the Indirails and Cinevate matteboxes were made in India and could be had for half the price that Cinevate was charging. Whatever, cognitive dissonance makes people believe what fits their belief system. If they believe that a company is there to help them out and support them as part of the 35mm community, then they'll pay too much for something that could be had for less and be happy to do it.

Thanks for the link, BTW. :thumbup:
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Thanks there ummm Freud. Anyway, Rich will that diameter work in a 15mm rail support system...have you tested it? I'd hate to have 48 inches of tube wasting away.

hee-hee I said tube.
 
Car3o said:
Cine, I haven't tested it, but it's diameter is 14.6mm. That .4mm won't be an issue. Unless my math is off.
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.4 can be an issue! I've played with a few carbon fiber rods and they are not always the same width. Even when coming from the same manufacturer. Rod that are slightly too large means not every accessory will fit, and rods that are too small means that your accessories won't grabs on the rods.
 
.4mm That's as thin as a hair. Most rod blocks are able to snag .4mm. That's like saying every rod manufactured is exactly 15mm each time they're cut.
 
Matty_g said:
.4 can be an issue! I've played with a few carbon fiber rods and they are not always the same width. Even when coming from the same manufacturer. Rod that are slightly too large means not every accessory will fit, and rods that are too small means that your accessories won't grabs on the rods.
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While I agree that subtle variations in size of carbon fiber rods can be a problem, I'd also say that the carbon fiber rods we're getting from adapter makers suffer from tolerance issues as well. The ones I got from Cinevate were so bad that the right one was completely scratched up from barely being able to fit into the Cinevate rail blocks while the left one would only lock to one of the Cinevate railblocks in my setup but spun freely in the rail block behind it.

If it's an option of paying $100 for non-perfect carbon fiber rods or paying $50 for non-perfect carbon fiber rods, I'd rather pay the $50.
 
We did use hollow rods at one time and stopped selling them due to the aforementioned issues. Getting our solid carbon rods manufacutured to a tolerance of +- .005 mm right took nearly a year, but it's been smooth sailing since. At the 60mm lengths they are far stiffer than stainless or hollow carbon, and virtually indestuctible. Our customers have correspondingly been very happy with them and we've had zero issues reported in terms of their accuracy :-)

With regard to 0.4mm variance from 15mm being OK...it's not. We consider +- 0.005 mm OK.

FreshDV commented on the solid rods here: http://www.freshdv.com/2008/01/freshdv-hands-on-review-brevis35-flip-adapter.html
 
^ I can testify to that. The hollow ones gave me big problems. The new solids are freakin sweet! However, steel or aluminum rods have their own sex appeal.
 
I think the Cinevate rails or ultra reasonable as far as price. I've got other issues with my Petroff setup besides the rods so even cheaply priced rods won't help me. I need the Proteus set up.
 
what problems are people having? so far the only problem someone has mentioned is that .4mm can be an issue? but nothing else?

sorry dennis not to offend you, but i can't say i fully believe a guy who came into a thread to mention his product. that seems to be a pattern on these threads. i'm surprised you didn't link a page to your 35adpater, dolly and achromat too. and .005mm? you kidding? that's thinner than hair. if it was .4mm bigger than 15mm I'd say you have a probem because it would be too big to fit inside a rail block, but if it's .4mm smaller, your rail blocks, not necessarily cinevates rail blocks, have to be able to tighten into it. i measured the steel rods i have and they don't measure 15mm on the dot, and definitely aren't any issues there with size.

i'll pay the 25 and get their sample pack...if they dont' work, well i have a carbon fiber rods to hit somebody over the head with.
 
Even if .4mm wasn't that big of a deal there is still a tolerances issue with hollow CF. Is that 14.6mm really going to end up being 14.6? You may end up at 15mm and get lucky, but you may end up near 14mm and your equipment may slip off your rods and break.
 
Matty_g said:
Even if .4mm wasn't that big of a deal there is still a tolerances issue with hollow CF. Is that 14.6mm really going to end up being 14.6? You may end up at 15mm and get lucky, but you may end up near 14mm and your equipment may slip off your rods and break.
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That site sells the rods at .575" outer diameter with a tolerance of +/- .008".

That means the rods will be between .567" and .583" That translates to an outer diameter of between 14.4mm and 14.8mm

.6mm too small on one end and .2mm too small on the other end. It also appears that the tolerance can be tightened up if you order the kind of rods that they sand down after they make them.

So does .6mm too small mean that you can't tighten the blocks onto the rails? The answer lies within the blocks. The Cinevate block construction doesn't allow them to tighten as much as the kind that sandwich the rails or other setups. The cinevate rails that I had trouble with are not a problem with other blocks. They're only a problem for me when I use the Cinevate blocks. My caliper tells me that my Cinevate blocks have holes that are about 14.8mm or 14.9mm This would explain why they gouged up one of the rails I got from Cinevate which was probably really close to being 15mm on the dot.
 
Car3o said:
sorry dennis not to offend you, but i can't say i fully believe a guy who came into a thread to mention his product. that seems to be a pattern on these threads. i'm surprised you didn't link a page to your 35adpater, dolly and achromat too.
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I'm sorry but that's gotta be the stupidest thing I've read on these boards in a while. Every one of the big 4 posts on these boards EVERYONE and all they do is provide info.

Some one said "the old rails gave me problems" and dennis takes his time, time he doesn't have to take and said "yeah it was problem we fixed it." And you hate on him for what? For telling you about an improved design?

Next time you see Wayne Kinney, Aaron or the Le Bros, or Brian Valente talk about an upcoming product, or how they've made improvements to something why don't you tell them to shove their shi* up their ass too?

It's pretty amazing that some members of these boards were just guys that used hang out and made cool stuff and began to sell it to those of us who can't make it for one reason or another. Now that they've had some success they should just disappear into clouds like some sort of omipotent OZ? Gimme a break.

We the members influenced and kind of even created these companies and its our opinions that inspire products. Look at this thread the very problems people were having have been taken into account by some of the companies and when they let you know that you tell them you don't believe them because they make it?

Wow. If companies or people aren't allowed to tell other people what they sell how do they sell it? How do people know what they offer? How do people know what changed?

Oh I get it, you'd just rather all the adapter companies silently produce products while we make threads going "I heard cinevate has new rails, are they good? I think they are but I don't know anything about them, I'm afraid to waste my money" instead of just being informed.

Dennis is just a guy, he was told his hollow carbon wasn't great, so he made it solid, but that's a problem for you?

i can't say i fully believe a guy who came into a thread to mention his product
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Should he come into a thread that isn't about products he makes and mention his product there? Would you believe him if he mentioned someone else's prduct?

Hien Le said "we have great bokeh, we can make any bokeh we want" are you gonna call him a liar too? Should he have said "SGpro makes the best bokeh around" does that inpire people about his product?

This place sometimes man, we demand something, they give it and we turn on them for one reason or another, what the hell?
 
I really don't know how your post is contributing to this thread. Sorry man, I'll apologize to Dennis if that'll make you happy? I apologize Dennis I made Ecking upset because you came into a thread and talked about some rods you make and how the time you put ito typing on this thread took time out of another thread to advertise your products. How could I? Completely uncalled for.

So, now that's out of the way, lets try to stay on track. I know the release of the Letus Ultimate has everyone fired up and excited, but this was about carbon fiber tubes at a lower cost than what ("key word here"), "manufacturers" are selling them for.
 
New Cinevate solid rods are, well, solid

New Cinevate solid rods are, well, solid

I can attest personally to the fact that the new solid carbon rods from Cinevate are very close to 15mm, if not spot on. As Dennis has already ably explained, the previous hollow versions had width variances. For me it caused issues with a cheap Cavision shoulder pad, it would slip. For that reason I didn't use the Cinevate carbon until the new versions arrived. I do not have the same issue with the new carbon versions, they have performed perfectly with a lot of gear from a lot of different manufacturers.

Regarding the IndiRails, when we were provided with a demo set of their carbon almost exactly a year ago, the rods were extremely thin-walled and had a raised ribbed texture with major width variances. We were uncertain if they would hold the adapter rigs we were building, and didn't want to risk it. I do not know if they are currently shipping that same version of carbon, or if they have changed the spec. As a side note, I would be interested in hearing from those who know, and maybe see a close up pic or two.
 
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