Capturing Blues

E

Edber

Member
I shot 35 hours of footage (24pa from dvx100a) for a feature and am having trouble capturing whole tapes. My source tapes have many time code breaks and capturing has been hard on my heads with all the shuffling around for realignment. I want to minimize the wear and tear on the heads (I'm capturing from the dvx!)

I'm ready to toss the timecode info if I have to, in order to get the one hour captures in one shot.

I've disabled the device control, played the tape, and did Capture Now. It worked for a while but stopped because of a change in 'Cadence'.

The Sequence Preset is DV NTSC 48 kHz - 23.98. The capture preset is DV NTSC 48 kHz Advanced (2:3:3:2) Pulldown Removal.

OSX vers. 10.3.4
FCP HD 4.5
dual 2.5 G5
500 gigs hd
2 gigs ram

Should I remove the pulldown removal, and redo the pulldown in Cinematools? Would that help? What is the simplest way to capture the whole tapes?

Gratefully,
Edber
 
Re: Capturing Blues

Yuck, time code breaks are the devil. The only convienent way I can think is to dupe the tapes onto new dv and let it produce one straight time code allowing you to be able to capture just what you need and not have the time code breaks. Probably and easier way, but thats the cleanest...
 
Re: Capturing Blues

For future reference use the Rec Check button to avoid time code breaks.

Do you really need to capture it all in one hour chunks? Logging with log notes is usually the fastest way to capture and then edit.

In your case you could turn off advanced pulldown and turn off all the abort if time code breaks in prefs. Set it to create a new clip if there is a break. Now select the captured clips and select tools menu -> Remove Advanced Pulldown

Note that Cinema Tools doesn't deal with advanced pulldown. You have to do it in FCP. Note also that FCP may use the timecode to check cadence. If that's the case and you dub advanced pulldown removal may not work.
 
Re: Capturing Blues

I'm with Scott, don't capture using Capture Now. It's bad for you in the long run. Do your logging like a man. ;D It's really the best way to go, especially if you're planning on (or more likely, not planning on but being forced to) recapturing any or all of your footage at some point.
 
Re: Capturing Blues

And also, 35 hours?! I know tape is cheap, but what kind of feature is this? I do not envy your capturing experience.
 
Re: Capturing Blues

His difficulty from what I read though is that he has time code breaks up the wazoo, making batch capturing impossible to my knowledge.
 
Re: Capturing Blues

From Scott:
Do you really need to capture it all in one hour chunks? Logging with log notes is usually the fastest way to capture and then edit.

*I've done both techniques and found a system with a bulk capture to be at least 3 times as fast for me. Steve Martin from the Los Angeles Final Cut Pro has a system of "power logging" that is awesome. If you're interested,
http://www.lafcpug.org/meeting_7_28_04.html
has a slight mention of it but will also give you the link to purchase the $20dvd that shows him explaining it during the meeting (amoung other helpfut tidbits)

In your case you could turn off advanced pulldown and turn off all the abort if time code breaks in prefs. Set it to create a new clip if there is a break. Now select the captured clips and select tools menu -> Remove Advanced Pulldown

*if I turn off the advance pulldown, why would I need to remove it again? don't I need the advance pull down for maximum resolution? -is the missing info on this link? http://squiresstudios.com/dvx100/dvx100fcp.html

Note that Cinema Tools doesn't deal with advanced pulldown. You have to do it in FCP. Note also that FCP may use the timecode to check cadence. If that's the case and you dub advanced pulldown removal may not work.

*so I can capture without pulldown (to negate the cadence issut) and then remove pulldown in FCP? do I lose any resolution here from the half field frames for the 24p alighment?

is there a simpler way? looks like I cursed myself by not using the rec check button(!)

thanks,
edber
 
Re: Capturing Blues

[quote author=sumosamuri link=board=FCP;num=1100135757;start=0#5 date=11/11/04 at 10:31:03]His difficulty from what I read though is that he has time code breaks up the wazoo, making batch capturing impossible to my knowledge. [/quote]

I just reread his original post, and I figured out what the real problem is here. Edber, you're using the DVX to capture! That's 35 hours minimum of wear on those heads. DON'T DO IT!!!!!

That may have been overdramatic. Anyway, with a feature having 35 hours of raw footage, for goodness' sake buy a cheap-0 cam to capture with.

Sumosamuri, timecode breaks shouldn't be a problem in most batch captures. They usually occur between clips, not in the middle of a take. At least, in my experience. "Never Rewind" is my motto.

Ryan
 
Re: Capturing Blues

[quote author=Edber link=board=FCP;num=1100135757;start=0#6 date=11/11/04 at 17:11:51]*I've done both techniques and found a system with a bulk capture to be at least 3 times as fast for me.[/quote]

3 times, that's a lot.

I won't dispute that it can be beneficial, speedwise, to capture a big clip, rather than watching everything first to log it and capturing a batch. However, the main problem with this is that unless you know your footage really well to begin with, you will only end up watching it again once it is captured to find the good takes. You might as well find them first and capture only what you need, thus preventing confusion later by the multiplicity of takes.

As I said though, I've done both. Depends on your situation. But for narrative stuff, I prefer to capture only my "good" takes, reaching for second or third choices only when I have to.

Ryan
 
Re: Capturing Blues


*if I turn off the advance pulldown, why would I need to remove it again?  don't I need the advance pull down for maximum resolution? -is the missing info on this link?  http://squiresstudios.com/dvx100/dvx100fcp.html

Well it was never removed if you turn off remove on capture
 
*so I can capture without pulldown (to negate the cadence issut) and then remove pulldown in FCP?  do I lose any resolution here from the half field frames for the 24p alighment?
 
You can remove pulldown from 24pa (F6) either on capture by setting to remove advanced pulldown or after captureby selecting the clips in the bin and going to Tools -> Remove Advanced Pulldown.

These do the exact thing. You drop the un-needed frame in the cadence. There's no interlace to deal with that's what enables it to be done in real time while you capture. It's just ddropping pure frames. If you shot 24p (F5) mode then you have to do it in Cinema Tools (if you want to remove pulldown) and yes it does have to deal with the interlace fields.

The advantage of doing it on capture is you only capture what you need and it's all done. Doing it with the menu means that you're capturing more than you need and will require this additional step in FCP to remove it. No difference in final footage though.

As mentioned it may be faster to capture large batches but unless it's broken down in some way you coudl spend a lot of time sifting through hour long chunks finding the correct angle and take you want.
 
Re: Capturing Blues

[quote author=sumosamuri link=board=FCP;num=1100135757;start=0#5 date=11/11/04 at 10:31:03]His difficulty from what I read though is that he has time code breaks up the wazoo, making batch capturing impossible to my knowledge. [/quote]
if you are logging a tape that you know has a timecode break, start with the reel name (assuming tape 1) as 1A, then when the break in the timecode occurs, change the reel name to 1B and so on.
 
Re: Capturing Blues

If it says "cadence" it could either be timecode or a processor glitch.

Even though you may be thinking..."My system never has problems", here's a test...

I have a powerbook 1.33 with full ram and it gives me that error every now and again during captures where I have advanced pulldown checked. What I can say is that if I click cancel, try again, etc...the breaks will be in different spots. This is not a timecode issue in that case, it's something stuttering trying to remove the extra frames on capture. You say you shot in 24pA? Capture as 60i (no removal) and then go to cinema tools and do the removal, or go to (in FCP) Tools>Remove advanced pulldown. NOTE: I have made duplicates of my captured clips as backups before doing either of these, and when I compare the duplicate to the new 23.98 I notice that the one done in FCP will retain it's original size. This would make it seem like it's actually just somehow marking frames to not display or something (just speculation), not actually creating a new 23.98 clip. Everything else about the clip is a functional 23.98 clip, ready to be used in a 24p timeline. I can't remember if filesize was smaller after converting through cinema tools. TEST ANYONE?!?

Anyways, my advice would be to try the capture again after the "cadence error"...error...., and if it is in a different spot in the footage, don't treat the clip as if it's got timecode breaks, just try your capture as normal and do the removal afterwords.

Anyone else run into anything similar?
 
Re: Capturing Blues

I have had cadence problems before and it always seemed to be times when I turned the power off on the camcorder then turned it back on when I was filming. For some reason, it messes up the cadence. I had to use the "capture now" command and have it capture that way instead of by logging the clips. It was a pain, but I was able to get around it that way.
 
Re: Capturing Blues

[quote author=glassblowerscat link=board=FCP;num=1100135757;start=0#4 date=11/11/04 at 08:50:02]And also, 35 hours?! I know tape is cheap, but what kind of feature is this? I do not envy your capturing experience.[/quote]

I'm just finishing a full length feature, which started with 36 hours of footage. Indeed, capture and logging was a hellish nightmare. I know that the next big feature I shoot will be bypassing tape completely. I'll be capturing the footage directly to a PowerBook, logging and deleting bad takes right on location. It might make the shoot a bit slower, but it'll save me the FOUR MONTHS OF LOGGING AND CAPTURING ON NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS!!! I HAVE NO LIFE!!!!!!!!!

Ahem, sorry. Continue...
 
Re: Capturing Blues

"For future reference use the Rec Check button to avoid time code breaks. "

not the case in my experience.

I still get timecode breaks left right and center with my DVX.
I even try to avoid turning the camera off for hours at a time on set to avoid breaks.  I still get 2-5 breaks per tape regardless; and many of them I can confrim are times I used "rec chk" to recue.

bottom line - in my experience the DVX100a SUCKS when it comes to timecode breaks.  great camera othe wise.  
 
Re: Capturing Blues

You might want the camera checked while under warranty or double check timecode settings. If rec check is giving you the correct numbers and you have regular time code enabled (i.e. not-free running) then it shoudl be working.
 
Re: Capturing Blues

Just a thought, would we all be better off running black on our tapes first before the shoot? I have been having timecode issues as well and am thinking maybe this would be a good practice to start doing. Any thoughts?
 
Re: Capturing Blues

a couple of notes:
Timecode does screw up the capture, however, if you go into the drive to capturing to you'll find the whatever you capture there. another thing if your computer keeps crashing after the capture (pressing esc) you need to set a limit in the capture time, any time will do. 30, 90, 120 whatever - this will prevent from making those 10 billiion gigs files in your drive...
 
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