Canopus report

Green Hornet said:
My version of Edius Broadcast is HERE!
That is great news.

What is even better news is that it works as expected.
It previews live, no frame drops.

It is very nice.
It can mix footage of different file sizes.
It can even output for the web.

The layout will take some getting use to, and I really would rather premiere be working, but hey, this works just like it was SD.

It seems as if the speed thing is based on processor speed, but it is working very fast, almost real time to render simple cuts and transitions. Actually, it took 4 seconds to do a basic transition, and any playback will be real time view if you have 128 meg video card or faster.

With the laptop having only 64meg video ram, it plays footage and cuts realtime with no frame drops.

This is currently on my laptop that is a P4 3.06gz processor with a gig of ram.
Nothing to brag about.

If i can figure out the interface, everything will be great from here.


I really can't stand trying to edit on a laptop, so now I can go ahead with the plans to build a desktop pc to view this in all it's glory.


Later..got some learning to do.
Click to expand...


doesn't edius broadcast include a hardware board of some kind? if so, you're just using the software on your laptop. is it possible to improvise a standalone house for the hardware? be nice to have a laptop with component or sdi capability.
 
I think it's high time someone did an Editing Software shootout... with pros and cons of working with each. And the most inexpensive route to take.

I've been checking on various software... and man, it's information overload.
 
Edius Broadcast doesn't have any sort of hardware board, it's software only. You can use it in conjunction with their various hardware products if you want (like the SP or NX boards) but it's also usable as a software-only product.
 
Their line up seems somewhat confusing.

Am i right in thinking if I want a HD output to a monitor from edius you have to get the NX-HD upgrade pack?

http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSNXforHDV/index.php

Even then it doesn't seem to mention a spec in the component output that would suit 720p for the panasonic.

These are the outputs listed...

DV/DVCAM - 720x480/59.94i (NTSC), 720x576/50i (PAL)

HDV - 1080/59.94i (NTSC), 1080/50i (PAL), 1080/30p (NTSC), 1080/25p (PAL), 1080/24p, 720/30p (NTSC), 720/25p (PAL), 720/24p, 720x480/60p (NTSC), 720x576/25p (PAL), 720x576/50p (PAL)

S-Video, composite - 720x480/59.94i (NTSC), 720x576/50i (PAL)

BNC component - 1080/59.94i (NTSC), 1080/50i (PAL), 720x480/59.94i (NTSC), 720x576/50i (PAL)

Or have I missed something?
 
Green Hornet said:
My version of Edius Broadcast is HERE!
That is great news.

What is even better news is that it works as expected.
It previews live, no frame drops.

It is very nice.
It can mix footage of different file sizes.
It can even output for the web.

The layout will take some getting use to, and I really would rather premiere be working, but hey, this works just like it was SD.

It seems as if the speed thing is based on processor speed, but it is working very fast, almost real time to render simple cuts and transitions. Actually, it took 4 seconds to do a basic transition, and any playback will be real time view if you have 128 meg video card or faster.

With the laptop having only 64meg video ram, it plays footage and cuts realtime with no frame drops.

This is currently on my laptop that is a P4 3.06gz processor with a gig of ram.
Nothing to brag about.

If i can figure out the interface, everything will be great from here.


I really can't stand trying to edit on a laptop, so now I can go ahead with the plans to build a desktop pc to view this in all it's glory.


Later..got some learning to do.
Click to expand...

Keep the info coming. This sounds like great news so far! I was just about to pull the trigger on getting a dual G5 (which I really can't afford) but if Edius gives me a working PC alternative then I might go that route.

Can you check to see if having Edius installed adds any options for the Adobe products? I don;t mean realtime effects or anything but some new codecs for rendering or at least verify that the filrs you create in Edius can be pulled into AE or Premiere for tweaking later.

Thanks and please let us know how it goes!

details details details!
 
The canopus HQ codec gets installed and yes you can pull that into premiere - but it is a little cluncky for editing in that form (not tested with DVCproHD only HDV footage generated in Edius 3.61)

But, as soon as you get past how fast Edius is, you will realize that you are limited. Even with simple things like a DVE - annoyingly poor implimentation. Keyframing is bad. If you are coming from PPro, you'll hate it. Plus, you can render video fine but how do you output audio for mixing elsewhere ? Guess what... you have to do a EDL export WTF? And then buy some translation software and convert to OMF.

Edius seems as though it was designed for broadcast people that want a cuts only edit done quickly. I was considering buying it to hold me over until something comes out for PPro. But, when you consider that Edius + that EDL convert program is around $1300 and then PPro's solution probably will be $400 to $1000. That is a lot to spend for supporting the HVX.

I was also looking to buy the new production studio @ $1249 and I finally came to the realization that a G5 with Final Cut is only a little more but I get all my desired features right now. Going from PPro to FCS is not that difficult. Sure it still has a little trouble with 1080i24pa in DVCproHD right now, but I will mostly be using 720/24pN.
 
Soarpod,
I downloaded edius trial and played with some HDV clips I have downloaded and I was not impressed at all. I have a DVstorm card and used it for years in Premiere for RT standard def stuff so I am by no means anti-Canopus. But I have used FCP on my Mac-MIni and it had pretty good performance so a dual G5 will be better. Plus I am assuming that there is some level of integration between FCP and Adobe products.....you can probably import .psd files into FCP and retain transparencies and stuff....right? I hope.

The biggest question I have is what file format to output to from FCP for use on a PC. I have the entire Adobe suite on PC and would like to work with output files from FCP....I know the DVCPRO quicktimes don't work....and uncompressed is just too big. Is there another usable codec for both that retains quality?
 
brianluce said:
doesn't edius broadcast include a hardware board of some kind? if so, you're just using the software on your laptop. is it possible to improvise a standalone house for the hardware? be nice to have a laptop with component or sdi capability.
Click to expand...


Edius Broadcast includes a dongle to allow you to do DVC PRO 50, DVC PRO 100, and work directly with the mxf files without having a wrapper.
In broadcast the HVX's mxf files are just like avi's, only the have an mxf extension.


Icicle22- I don't believe you get to do the HVX codec with the trial, as you need the dongle, that only comes with broadcast.
HDV, I believe, needs to be converted to another codec, or you will have to render everything, I think.
 
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Green Hornet said:
Edius Broadcast includes a dongle to allow you to do DVC PRO 50, DVC PRO 100, and work directly with the mxf files without having a wrapper.
In broadcast the HVX's mxf files are just like avi's, only the have an mxf extension.


Icicle22- I don't believe you get to do the HVX codec with the trial, as you need the dongle, that only comes with broadcast.
HDV, I believe, needs to be converted to another codec, or you will have to render everything, I think.
Click to expand...

You are right about that. No DVCPRO or mxf support. But I was able to get a feel for the workflow and wasn't overly thrilled. Canopus has always been efficient at code so I always got better realtime on there software vs. Adobe. But the lack of features are too much to overcome for me at this point.
 
I'm working with Liquid Edition on SD -

Internet research teaches me that Liquid Edition supports DVCPRO-HD and P2 metadata.....

As I didn't read any experience yet here, I wonder whether any of you knows more or has experience with LE and P2 editing.

I'd love to keep LE with its special desktop structure, free speed control at any frame, autosave of each "click" conserving complete history, rendering during work etc. .

FCP would mean that I'd have to buy a Mac. And Canopus: ..... well... I didn't work yet with Canopus....

Any thoughts?
 
Liquid doesn't support P2 HD yet. It will support P2 DVCPRO50, but not HD. Hopefully in the next revision they'll add HD support.

For more info on Liquid, contact member StephenLNoe. He's a big fan of Liquid.
 
Green Hornet,

First of all. I'm a bit surprised that you can play back HVX HD on a laptop. My attempts at that failed. Dual Xeon would be minimal. We also use the Canopus NX card on our 5 machines and the performance is very good. Plays like DV. Canopus will be announcing shortly( probably NAB in April) an upgrade to version 4.0. This will add more features. I would expect that this product will continue to grow and mature since it was recently bought by Thompson/Grass Valley. They make big production switchers and plan on expanding their broadcast base with Edius.

Most of the shows we edit are fairly simple. Track config might look like this:

V1 Titles
V2 Graphics/effects (Stills, chroma keys, etc)
V3 B-roll
V4 A-roll

A1 A-roll channel 1
A2 A-roll channel 2
A3 B-roll channel 1
A4 B-roll channel 2
A5 Voice Over
A6 Music
A7 Sound Effects

The program comes with TitleMotion Pro which is great for animating graphics. The pan and scane feature in Edius is OK but Canopus makes a little program called Imaginate that does that very very well. Canopus also makes a program called ProCoder that converts just about any video to any other video. Quality is very good.

There are things I wish Edius did better like keyframing, clip logging, and audio mixing. Future versions are sure to have 5.1 audio and multi-cam editing. But their is nothing in the program that would prevent you from winning an Emmy for your latest feature documentary, travel series, or commercial. :love4:
Your high end effects can be done in After Effects and imported easily into Edius exactly the same way we do it in FCP and Avid. One of the nice parts about Edius is that accepts just about anything.

Best,

jim
 
Okay, I've used Canopus Edius Broadcast for approximately two minutes so far. Here's the initial reaction:

1. I opened a project that was 720/24p. I imported a bunch of 720/24p files that I had on my hard disk. Hit play -- they play back at full frame rate. Now, mind you, I can't figure out how to play 'em in full size yet, so it's just the preview window size (which is maybe 480x720 or so) but it plays back at FULL FRAME RATE. Raylight would give me maybe 12fps, Avid would be maybe 3fps. Canopus is playing 'em back at full frame rate off the internal hard disk. This is a good sign.

2. Decided to push it a bit, and I went and shot a 1080/60i clip. Put the card in the laptop slot, imported the file into the timeline. Note: no goofing around, no import/unwrap/rewrap, no copying to avid mediafiles/mxf/1... just import off the card. Dropped that file on a 1080/60i timeline, and hit play. Yep -- full frame rate on a 1080/60i clip.

3. Looked through the other options for timeline, and yep, there's 1080/24p and 1080/24pa and 1080/30p. Apple can't do that. Avid can't do that. Until Edius, only Raylight could support those files.

Okay, so take this report for what it's worth -- I know *nothing* about the software yet, I don't know what Edius can do and what it can't do, heck, I can't even figure out how to get a file to play back full-screen (if it can). But so far, it's downright impressive how well it's working, considering how poorly other PC apps have performed on this same laptop. It's making the HVX integration effortless so far!
 
Barry, that is my experience as well....even on my laptop.
I can't figure out how to do much other than play the files, and do transitions, but I can't figure out how to cut from the time line, only from the preview window, which it called something else.

AS for the Xeon processors, I hear they are not all they are promoted as being, in many cases a modern processor suposedly outperforms them at half the clock cycle. I have not personally bench tested them, but have seen many tests reports from others.
 
I have not had the Avid product long enough to give an intelligent report however I can state that I am able to live capture and import MXF files into it on both my (old) Dell 530 WS (dual 2gig Xeons and 2gigs ram) and my Toshiba Satellite P25 series (3gig P4 and 1 gig of ram). Both machines play back the video and audio (in the preview window) in real time.

Note: I also purchased Raylight (for use with Premiere 1.5) but have been disappointed with it thus far. The suggestion someone made the other day regarding importing a quicktime reference file (out of Avid Xpress Pro HD) into PP 1.5 using custom settings worked for me. I will say unequivocally, that without native support for the HVX, Adobe has seen the my last dollar (for Premiere).
 
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