Canon's Upcoming RF cinema camera rumored specs

In all honesty I used to be a huge Canon fan, but their lack of development and pricing made me migrate to BM gear. Canon is rock solid, and it always works. However IQ quality made me switch, and even though I have to put up with BM quirks, I will say their IQ, workflow and final product are superior, at much lower price point.
 
jerrygvizdek said:
In all honesty I used to be a huge Canon fan, but their lack of development and pricing made me migrate to BM gear. Canon is rock solid, and it always works. However IQ quality made me switch, and even though I have to put up with BM quirks, I will say their IQ, workflow and final product are superior, at much lower price point.
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I was going the other way round. Using Canon for stills since ages in analog times and digital since the 1st 5D I never got caught by the C series. The C300 was way too expensive, the C300ii expensive too and crippled, C200 crippled.. The C300ii is my 1st Cinema series camera and I couldn't be happier about image quality, ease of handling and autofocus. I am not a fan of a specific brand in general. I use what makes my work easy and brings money. If 5,000,-$ price difference of two cameras makes a difference in your income over 3yrs there's probably something wrong with the business model.
 
ahalpert said:
Events - dead. But mostly postponed to next year, so 2021 could be a banner year.
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I'm not sure I agree. A lot of events, once gone, are gone.
A few examples of events being cancelled that affected me:
2020 ACC Men's basketball tournament- Cancelled.
2020 NCAA Men's basketball tournament- Cancelled.
2020 NCAA Women's basketball tournament- Cancelled.
2020 ACC Football Media Day's- Cancelled.

There won't be two of these in 2021 to make up for it them not happening in 2020. Just like there won't be two (main)NAB's or two Cine Gear's, etc. Maybe with things like concerts that got pushed, so you'll have the postponed events stacking up with other events that are planned for 2021, but I don't think it's gonna make up for this year, by any stretch. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think I will be.
 
Run&Gun said:
I'm not sure I agree. A lot of events, once gone, are gone.
A few examples of events being cancelled that affected me:
2020 ACC Men's basketball tournament- Cancelled.
2020 NCAA Men's basketball tournament- Cancelled.
2020 NCAA Women's basketball tournament- Cancelled.
2020 ACC Football Media Day's- Cancelled.

There won't be two of these in 2021 to make up for it them not happening in 2020. Just like there won't be two (main)NAB's or two Cine Gear's, etc. Maybe with things like concerts that got pushed, so you'll have the postponed events stacking up with other events that are planned for 2021, but I don't think it's gonna make up for this year, by any stretch. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think I will be.
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My new partnership with my friends trade show exhibit company, we have been tracking industry trends closely and carefully since his entire $5 million dollar per year business hinges on it. Trade shows are just gone for 2020 and the first half of 2021 so far. As you all know, NAB, IBC, AES, SEMA, basically every large trade show for 2020
was canceled. If take the aggregate of an entire industry bassically canceling 2020, that is 34.3 BILLION dollars of lost business. I am helping him pivot, we are working on all kinds of cool alternatives with virtual exhibits, live streaming and experiential marketing videos but even those are a poor substitute for a real, in person trade show
experience. But all of his customers have to do something to keep up their image, new product roll outs, reinforcing their product lines to their clients. It's a huge opportunity for us. But the stupid way that our country has reacted to the Pandemic is holding us back. For my tiny company so far, just in this arena we have lost close to $100k
in bookings so far this year and they keep canceling.
 
Run&Gun said:
I'm not sure I agree. A lot of events, once gone, are gone.
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I should have said weddings. Most of my events are weddings and the couples still want to throw a big party. I think every wedding that has canceled on me is postponing till next year. I actually have one little ceremony to livestream (wish me luck!) next weekend that will also have a big party next year.

So, some of my wedding companies are expecting a busy year (if parties can be thrown without masks and social distancing). Then the problem is losing work due to conflicting dates. Oh well
 
Clermond said:
. If 5,000,-$ price difference of two cameras makes a difference in your income over 3yrs there's probably something wrong with the business model.
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I'm not sure if I agree with that. Ok - you bought a $10k camera. Then you could afford a $15k camera? Ok. So then you could afford a $20k camera? There's gotta be a cut-off point somewhere for someone's budget, or a point where saving $5k on the camera body so you can direct it into lights or audio makes sense. Or maybe you take the $5k and buy stocks

Another way to look at it is not that it's $5k more but that it's twice the cost
 
ahalpert said:
I'm not sure if I agree with that. Ok - you bought a $10k camera. Then you could afford a $15k camera? Ok. So then you could afford a $20k camera? There's gotta be a cut-off point somewhere for someone's budget, or a point where saving $5k on the camera body so you can direct it into lights or audio makes sense. Or maybe you take the $5k and buy stocks

Another way to look at it is not that it's $5k more but that it's twice the cost
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I'm not down with that argument, because if you keep "it's just $5K more" enough times you're at $100K, which is $95K away from $5K, not just $5K away from $5K. But that's kind of the point you were trying to make, I think. But still, not a good argument. Everyone has to make their own decisions on how to divvy-up their money on gear, etc.

But right now, in the current economic/business climate, especially as it relates to TV and production, I wouldn't just be tossing $5K around willy-nilly, either.
 
Yes that was my point - your budget could balloon by increments. Or maybe you have a fixed amount to spend.

But obviously if spending $5k more would make you an additional $20k/year, you don't want to be pennywise and pound-foolish. But if you're producing the work and the client doesn't care what camera you use, it's not so simple.

In any case, I like to evaluate price ratios instead of absolute differences. If you save 10% on everything, it can really add up.
 
I agree about $5g not mattering.

Say 10vs15 with 50% depreciation over four years. 400 days worked.

What’s the difference in daily cost? $6.50?
 
What I wanted to say: if a camera is a better choice for you but you don’t buy it because of 5k there might be something wrong. Easy. no need to make more out of it and end at mini LF instead of a GH5
 
Clermond said:
What I wanted to say: if a camera is a better choice for you but you don’t buy it because of 5k there might be something wrong. Easy. no need to make more out of it and end at mini LF instead of a GH5
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Fair enough. I think the other chap basically was saying that BM outpaced Canon on IQ (BRAW, new sensor etc) and the lower price was a bonus.

Personally, I find camera choices to be a bit more complicated. I bought an FS7 for $3k used recently. The FX9 or C300iii would be $8k more. Definitely better cameras. Would they make me more money? Not sure. The FS7 is still in demand and still meets the same codec deliverables specs as those other two, by and large.

But then I also want a B gimbal camera. So now I'm looking at R5 or R6 or A7SIII. If they were each sufficient, I would just get the R6 and save a few bucks. But I'm leaning A7SIII. Which means I need at least 1 E-mount lens.

So, the nexus of camera quality, profitability, and relationship between the cameras in your arsenal and the cost of required accessories is fairly complicated. And making a different decision in camera body can have ripple effects on the entire budget.
 
Clermond said:
I was going the other way round. Using Canon for stills since ages in analog times and digital since the 1st 5D I never got caught by the C series. The C300 was way too expensive, the C300ii expensive too and crippled, C200 crippled.. The C300ii is my 1st Cinema series camera and I couldn't be happier about image quality, ease of handling and autofocus. I am not a fan of a specific brand in general. I use what makes my work easy and brings money. If 5,000,-$ price difference of two cameras makes a difference in your income over 3yrs there's probably something wrong with the business model.
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I have had many Canon cameras, from 7D, XF100, and C300 MkI. C300 was a great camera and worked well with XF100. However since larer generations of BM cameras, I let go Canon because of price vs image. BM cameras simply produce better image, at lower price point. One thing about Canon, that they work no matter what, and probably they are some of the most reliable cameras for field work. But compared to BM, IQ is lower. What BM did with their sub 3K cameras is simply revolutionary
 
I predicted two years ago that there eventually will be a new cinema camera every year from everyone...wonder if it will happen.

[Also doesn't mean a new $15K camera every year, but a new updated, interesting model every year whether it's $5K or $20K.]
 
P.S. No, the control ring can't be programmed to AF speed. It's mostly for functions that can be changed during recording (WB/K, ISO, Shutter, Aperture, etc) although very surprisingly you can change the picture profile (when C-Log is off), which doesn't make much sense for video but maybe for photography it does.

And the RF lens has really great AF transitions.
 
jerrygvizdek said:
I have had many Canon cameras, from 7D, XF100, and C300 MkI. C300 was a great camera and worked well with XF100. However since larer generations of BM cameras, I let go Canon because of price vs image. BM cameras simply produce better image, at lower price point. One thing about Canon, that they work no matter what, and probably they are some of the most reliable cameras for field work. But compared to BM, IQ is lower. What BM did with their sub 3K cameras is simply revolutionary
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TBH the BM cameras have the most "cinematic" images out there. The original 2.5K BMCC (which I owned) had the best image of any camera I've ever had... But as you mentioned Canon cameras "work no matter what". So do Sony cams and that's why I switched to Canon and then Sony. Too many quirks with BM and as a working professional quirks are the last thing you want when you're in the weeds in a production and you just need your camera to work...
 
Minor update on the R300 from canon rumors:

While two cameras have been rumored, I have now been told multiple times that only one of them will be announced in late August or early September, with the others coming a bit later. There could obviously be some manufacturing or supply chain issues that may delay products.

I am told that the first camera announced will be the Cinema EOS R300, which will be the higher-end camera of the two rumored RF Cinema EOS cameras.

Canon Cinema EOS R300 (Name not confirmed)

Super 35mm 4K DGO sensor (same as the Cinema EOS C300 Mark III)
No IBIS
RF Mount
Internal ND (10 Stops)
CLog 2 & CLog 3
4:2:2 10bit onto SD cards up to 4K120 and 2K180
No RAW capability internally at launch
BP-A batteries
Price: $6299 USD

In addition to this information, I am told that the camera will definitely not come with RAW capability and it won’t have SDI output.

This source also confirms that the body will be smaller than the C100/C200 camera bodies by a significant amount.
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