Boz
Well-known member
Um... why are you here exactly? ;-)
Why 24P? Do you watch ANY theatrical movies? How 'bout ANY dramas on TV? That's why 24P counts. 30P looks like video, always will.
Canon's recent announcement. Will it hurt GH1?
- Thread starter Nitsuj
- Start date
Um... why are you here exactly? ;-)
Why 24P? Do you watch ANY theatrical movies? How 'bout ANY dramas on TV? That's why 24P counts. 30P looks like video, always will.
I think it's the 60p mode that everyone is liking- mostly because 1) it has more frames to deal with so is easier to convert to 24p 2) it allows for slow motion if you want 3) it does look smoother than 30p and 24p 4) it's the only other AVCHD mode.
The D90 definitely does have 24p but yeah the jello is the worst of the three. Honestly I would say that the D90 has looked the most filmic over the Canon 5D and the GH1 but that jello kind of kills it.
ydgmdlu
Veteran
As a current 5D Mk II owner and future GH1 owner, I agree 100%... Also the terrible compression and lack of manual controls kills it.
cowpunk52
Veteran
I shoot an internationally distributed travel show, and we shoot 24P. That decision comes down from production. It's much easier for them to transcode to PAL than 30P. Because of this, 5DII is not an option for the show at all, but they just bought a bunch of GH1's for us to play with for b-roll! woo hoo!
I'm still firmly in the GH-1 camp( for those that were worried). I do believe a firmware update is a distinct possibility for the issues we all know and love. 2 camera's pre-ordered for a little more than the price for a single 5D. Lenses and adapters already gathering dust just waiting for the 'brain' and something to shoot upon delivery. Exciting times.
I think it's great that Canon did this as well for the same reasons mentioned by others. It just means more of us are going to be shooting with the camera that suits them best. Ain't nothing wrong with that. For me it's the aesthetic choice of the 30p v 24p ending up being the decider.
I think it's great that Canon did this as well for the same reasons mentioned by others. It just means more of us are going to be shooting with the camera that suits them best. Ain't nothing wrong with that. For me it's the aesthetic choice of the 30p v 24p ending up being the decider.
Dzip
Member
Canon just showed Panasonic that it can make a chessmove on the market by a simple firmware update just before the release of their competitor's new camera. I'm sure the people at panny are taking note of that. I hope they use this same tactic with the GH1! I say the more competition, the better to move things along to get decent video features on these DSLR's. > oh, and I'm still super excited to get the GH1.
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John Caballero
Veteran
Incorrect.
Yes and no.
Wrong again!!!!! 720p60 is believed by Kholi to be the strongest. The jury is still out until more people get to use the camera.
My goodness, so much wrong information! What good are these forums then? All this has been discuss all over the place for the last few months.
cowpunk52
Veteran
They're both stupendous cameras, no doubt about it. With that huge sensor and razor thin depth of field, the 5dII is especially well-suited to things like narrative drama.
But I shoot for television & the web, and that's what pays my bills - reality and comedy are my primary domains. With it's 24P, overcranking ability, super-small footprint, autofocus features, swivel LCD, EVF, longer recording time & a kit lens with a huge range (+ OIS - all at a price almost half a 5dII body only), the GH1 is very nearly perfectly suited to my needs. The codec doesn't bother me - equipment versatility is king here, and 17mps AVCHD suits the networks I work for just fine. Oh, and I can use it with a host of lenses that won't break my bank - Canon FD, C mount, PL mount, zeiss, M42, etc... With the GH1, I see myself able to capture footage much more readily than I could with the 5dII. And if you can't get the shot in the first place, it doesn't matter how many mbs you can record.
The 5dII just became a much neater toy, but it still lacks the versatility that I need to give it a place in my kit. But if my primary usage would be making indie dramas that I hoped would someday make it to the big screen, then I might give the 5dII more thought.
But probably not
Oh, and oddly enough, neither camera can replace my primary camera, an XH-A1... which will, for now, keep bringing in the majority of my bread & butter...
But I shoot for television & the web, and that's what pays my bills - reality and comedy are my primary domains. With it's 24P, overcranking ability, super-small footprint, autofocus features, swivel LCD, EVF, longer recording time & a kit lens with a huge range (+ OIS - all at a price almost half a 5dII body only), the GH1 is very nearly perfectly suited to my needs. The codec doesn't bother me - equipment versatility is king here, and 17mps AVCHD suits the networks I work for just fine. Oh, and I can use it with a host of lenses that won't break my bank - Canon FD, C mount, PL mount, zeiss, M42, etc... With the GH1, I see myself able to capture footage much more readily than I could with the 5dII. And if you can't get the shot in the first place, it doesn't matter how many mbs you can record.
The 5dII just became a much neater toy, but it still lacks the versatility that I need to give it a place in my kit. But if my primary usage would be making indie dramas that I hoped would someday make it to the big screen, then I might give the 5dII more thought.
But probably not
Oh, and oddly enough, neither camera can replace my primary camera, an XH-A1... which will, for now, keep bringing in the majority of my bread & butter...
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PappasArts
Veteran
24FPS is coming to the 5DMII, it's being beta tested at the moment. This has been in the air in LA film scene for a short while, however more confirms are coming in daily; not unlike the manual control chatter was two months ago, tell just before yesterday. Then it happened.
Timur Civan has 1st hand account.
Conversation starts at thread #150 to be exact..
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=172444&page=15
Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84
Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
Myspace:
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }
.
DammitJanet
Well-known member
Regardless of the 5D's firmware announcement, the features of the GH1 and most importantly, its price, are what really draw me to it. Not to mention the size/weight etc. Budget reigns supreme with me so I'd rather get the GH1 and some lenses/accessories than a 5D body alone.
squig
Veteran
hehe smartarse
I think if I can get my hands on a GH1 next week from HK I'll play around with one for a while and wait for the MKII 24p update. If I can't get a GH1 next week I'll just hire a MKII for the weekend for my shoot. We can look at specs and test footy until our heads explode but the only way to know for sure if the cam is right for you is to get and shoot ****. Kicking myself for selling the D90 before I could get a replacement.
Justyn
Veteran
It's a great time for everyone here. I think the Canon might have one edge in terms of its still shooting. It is nice to have a full frame sensor.. but it's quite a bit more money and quite a bit larger. I think that the Panasonic one will be a major killer if they have realtime video out through the ports. Thats all they need to sell me.. Hard to do pro work without that these days.
After finding out my MKii arrives this Friday, I had to come back and ask some questions about adapters but wanted to chime in here.
Beware: this post will cause grief, but oh well. People need to learn that no tool is perfect, and neither is better than the other because they're both flawed.
I'm going to repeat, though, that I'm brand agnostic. Proof --
My MKii arrives on Friday. Hopefully will be able to get my Contax and Nikon adapters on the same day if possible.
GH-1
Pros:
- 1080/24P, 720/60P, 720/30P
* Slow Mo in Post is easier, direct
* 720/60P is robust
* MJPEG Option for instant access
- PAL Support
- 4/3" Sensor
* Vast coverage of lenses in every brand including Cinema Spec
* Easy Focus Pulling, Mark Hitting
- Small and Lightweight: Great for small rigs and setups
- Kit lens: 14-140 w/Silent Focus and OIS
* Automatic Features (great for doc, run-n-gun)
- Flip Out Rotatable LCD (great for run-n-gun)
- IN-Camera Crop Options
- Jello Control in Both 1080 and 720 controlled extremely well.
- Excellent Battery Consumption
* 2 Hours for recording.
* 1 Hour Charge Time for batteries
- No Overheating or intense heat output
- Lengthy Recording Times in all modes. Great for Events, etc.
- Quite cheap for the benefits that come with it.
* MSR: 1500.00 w/Kit Lens
Cons:
- 1080/24P not at its best -- enough of an image hit to warrant caution
* Contained in 60i which needs Pulldown
* Artifacts introduced due to 1080/24P Implementation
- Lowlight performance not as great as MKii
- Not exactly S35mm FOV
- No Video Out Monitoring during recording built-in
- No Audio Metering (dunno if this is really a con, but sure)
- Weak Still Capabilities on a Consumer level
- Aliasing issues in 1080P, 720P TBD but looks better. Needs workarounds
Canon 5D MKii
Pros
- Full frame sensor
* Photographic Full Frame FOV and DOF
* Better low light performance
* High dynamic range
* Live HDMI out while recording
- Robust 1080 Compression. Still worthy video in fact.
- Incredible still images for the money
- Hudson's Participation in the 5D Free Program
* Gui represented Audio Levels
* Adjustable Audio gain
* On screen Zebras for Highlight pretection
* Crop Marks on Screen for Video stay visible
- Live Video out through HDMI or Composite port during recording
Cons
- 30P limitation. No options in-camera to record higher or lower
- Full Frame DOF will cause problems with focusing in Run-N-Gun
- Full Frame limits lens choices, although great glass available that covers it.
- Larger Body than competitors
- No Crop Options at the time, need to crop in post if you want such a thing.
- Battery Drains quickly when Live View is activated
- No Flip-Out LCD. Locked into EVF or Stationary LCD on back.
- Hot Pixels prone to appearing during extended use
- Heats Up: affects not known, outside of hot pixels.
- Aliasing issues need workarounds
- Jello more prevalent than GH-1, but much better than D90
- Price in comparison to competitors
* 2600 + Tax (2800+ in CA) with no kit lens
This list is based on NOW, not later. Not assumptions or rumors or speculation on either side of the camp. One camera isn't even out yet in the US, the other is already here.
I know a lot of people are going to jump in and start slinging rocks, getting angry. This is my observation from using both cameras.
Both cameras are great, and the important thing to know is that both will produce an incredible image for the price. They come with limitations, and neither are perfect. Far from it.
Pick and Choose your poison. And if I've left something out, please inform me in a respectful manner and I'll be happy to change it.
Beware: this post will cause grief, but oh well. People need to learn that no tool is perfect, and neither is better than the other because they're both flawed.
I'm going to repeat, though, that I'm brand agnostic. Proof --
My MKii arrives on Friday. Hopefully will be able to get my Contax and Nikon adapters on the same day if possible.
GH-1
Pros:
- 1080/24P, 720/60P, 720/30P
* Slow Mo in Post is easier, direct
* 720/60P is robust
* MJPEG Option for instant access
- PAL Support
- 4/3" Sensor
* Vast coverage of lenses in every brand including Cinema Spec
* Easy Focus Pulling, Mark Hitting
- Small and Lightweight: Great for small rigs and setups
- Kit lens: 14-140 w/Silent Focus and OIS
* Automatic Features (great for doc, run-n-gun)
- Flip Out Rotatable LCD (great for run-n-gun)
- IN-Camera Crop Options
- Jello Control in Both 1080 and 720 controlled extremely well.
- Excellent Battery Consumption
* 2 Hours for recording.
* 1 Hour Charge Time for batteries
- No Overheating or intense heat output
- Lengthy Recording Times in all modes. Great for Events, etc.
- Quite cheap for the benefits that come with it.
* MSR: 1500.00 w/Kit Lens
Cons:
- 1080/24P not at its best -- enough of an image hit to warrant caution
* Contained in 60i which needs Pulldown
* Artifacts introduced due to 1080/24P Implementation
- Lowlight performance not as great as MKii
- Not exactly S35mm FOV
- No Video Out Monitoring during recording built-in
- No Audio Metering (dunno if this is really a con, but sure)
- Weak Still Capabilities on a Consumer level
- Aliasing issues in 1080P, 720P TBD but looks better. Needs workarounds
Canon 5D MKii
Pros
- Full frame sensor
* Photographic Full Frame FOV and DOF
* Better low light performance
* High dynamic range
* Live HDMI out while recording
- Robust 1080 Compression. Still worthy video in fact.
- Incredible still images for the money
- Hudson's Participation in the 5D Free Program
* Gui represented Audio Levels
* Adjustable Audio gain
* On screen Zebras for Highlight pretection
* Crop Marks on Screen for Video stay visible
- Live Video out through HDMI or Composite port during recording
Cons
- 30P limitation. No options in-camera to record higher or lower
- Full Frame DOF will cause problems with focusing in Run-N-Gun
- Full Frame limits lens choices, although great glass available that covers it.
- Larger Body than competitors
- No Crop Options at the time, need to crop in post if you want such a thing.
- Battery Drains quickly when Live View is activated
- No Flip-Out LCD. Locked into EVF or Stationary LCD on back.
- Hot Pixels prone to appearing during extended use
- Heats Up: affects not known, outside of hot pixels.
- Aliasing issues need workarounds
- Jello more prevalent than GH-1, but much better than D90
- Price in comparison to competitors
* 2600 + Tax (2800+ in CA) with no kit lens
This list is based on NOW, not later. Not assumptions or rumors or speculation on either side of the camp. One camera isn't even out yet in the US, the other is already here.
I know a lot of people are going to jump in and start slinging rocks, getting angry. This is my observation from using both cameras.
Both cameras are great, and the important thing to know is that both will produce an incredible image for the price. They come with limitations, and neither are perfect. Far from it.
Pick and Choose your poison. And if I've left something out, please inform me in a respectful manner and I'll be happy to change it.
That's a great list Kholi.
As a shooter, not a shooter/director, the real deal breaker for me on the GH1 I think isn't the image. It's the lack of recording Live HDMI out. It's probably a wanky connector on the 5D that gets loose all the time without tie downs, but it's better than nothing! The director has to see the image, it's a must.
As a shooter, not a shooter/director, the real deal breaker for me on the GH1 I think isn't the image. It's the lack of recording Live HDMI out. It's probably a wanky connector on the 5D that gets loose all the time without tie downs, but it's better than nothing! The director has to see the image, it's a must.
Pretty odd to calculate but...
FF @ 50/5.6 is about a 100/11 for 35mm
So, somewhere around 100/11 on the GH-1 would look like a 50/5.6 on the MKii.
When I get my MKii, I'll be using a 50/1.4 to simulate the look I would get with a 24/1.8 on my GH-1. Or Vice Versa. Meaning a 50/1.4 on the MKii should look something like a 24/1.8 or 20/1.8 on the GH-1.
Might have that wrong but something similar.
I think you have that backwards. 50/f1.4 on full frame would be equal (in 35mm terms) to 100/f1.0 on a GH1, if you wanted identical depth of field.
Orchidthief
Active member
Kholi, quick question is there a zebra option on the GH1? You mentioned it for the MKII but nothing with the GH.
pix2pixels
Well-known member
A 50/1.4 would be way cheaper than a 24/1.8 or 20/1.8.
Also, accessing the pictures in a friendly fashion is much more difficult from GH1: is it true that transcoding to ProRes , 1 hour of AVHD data takes 12-14 hours on a fully pumped 8 core Mac?
If that is the case, a hardware solution like Matrox or AJA could be used for GH1.
Also, accessing the pictures in a friendly fashion is much more difficult from GH1: is it true that transcoding to ProRes , 1 hour of AVHD data takes 12-14 hours on a fully pumped 8 core Mac?
If that is the case, a hardware solution like Matrox or AJA could be used for GH1.
another vote on that! (also full frame!)You listening Panasonic? Native 24P and better AVCHD implementation otherwise you'll see plenty of potential customers head over to the Canon camp.
hope Nikon is listening too:thumbup: