Canon R7 & R10 APS-C Cameras

New Fuji APS-C models will be announced on the 31st (and leaked earlier .. wait, they're already leaked). Sony's, at the moment, staying on the APS-C sidelines (with most of theirs 6XXX series on back order anyway).

These are strange lineup addon's for Canon. There was a talk of an affordable full frame camera or two to replace EOS RP and EOS R but now, with two new APS-C models, the sub-$2,000 niche seems to have sailed for full frame. And the $2,500 territory still has R6. Strange days indeed.
 
I actually really like these options. I moved from m43 to a Canon M6 mk2 before moving to a Canon R6. I liked the M6 for stills and video but the 4K video was a bit soft and pixel binned. Fine for general use but it just never had the same detail as my GH4 or P4k. I love APSC for the extra reach for stills and video however and find FF to be too wide or too expensive to really do telephoto the right way.

Im actually considering the R10. Nice $1000 backup/second camera to the R6 for 24p full sensor oversampled 4k and 10bit 422 HDR PQ. Should match nicely with the HDR PQ from the R6. No IBS but it would likely be a locked down camera when used as a second camera.

instead of investing in massive telephoto FF glass I think it makes more sense to invest in a R10. That way I have a nice matched backup when the R6 overheats. For wildlife stills the 1.6x at 24 MP likely out performs any teleconverter or larger FF lens on the 20 MP R6. At the very least at a fraction of the size. The amount of RF glass options doesn’t bother me either since EF adapts perfectly to RF. Finally a decent canon DSLR body that can take full advantage of the Sigma f1.8 zooms.

4k 60p has some limitations on both but that’s true of every FF DSLR minus the A7S and R6. This is APSC so it should have handled it a bit better but honestly I rarely use 4K 60p. I have the R6 for that if I need it.

the R7 seems like a very nice alternative to the R6 for those perfectly fine with APSC vs FF. If the R7 would have been out at the time I would have gotten it over the R6 without a doubt. In fact for the price of the R6 I could have picked up a R7 and R10. The RP and R at the time just had too many limitations.

I almost always shoot HDR PQ now over Clog3. I grade in FCP with the 14” XDR MBP and watch on my XDR iPad and HDR 4K TV. Such a wonderful and easy HDR workflow just as easy as any normal rec709 profile.
 
The one nice thing about the R7 is the 32MP combined with the 1.6x crop pretty much means I can get 2x crop stills with likely similar detail to the 20 MP stills on the R6. The R7 also has IBIS and it’s tempting but I think the R10 is more than enough as a quick backup while the R6 cools down or when I need extra reach. Plus the R10 is even more compact to use on a gimbal which really makes up for the lack of IBIS and way outperforms Canon IBIS. It will be a great DPAF 4K oversampled 24p 10 bit HDR PQ gimbal cam.
 
Also just picked up a RF 35mm f1.8 which will work very nicely on a R10. Building up my RF collection slowly. Finally have a Tamron 24-70 f2.8 to go with my Tamron 70-200 f2.8 as well. I have now replaced pretty much every m43 lens I had plus added some new options. Pretty sure I’m never going back to m43 now. Especially with the R10 and R7 options to compliment the R6 and share lenses. Even the RF 24-240 will be much better on APSC as most of the extreme imperfections will be negated with the crop. The lens worked great on the R6 in crop mode for video. Just could never use it that way for 20MP full sensor stills. With the R10 and R7 that’s no longer an issue. The 24-240 will be a pretty solid lens despite it’s dark aperture that is. When it comes to stills I rarely use a lot of ISO. The APSC cameras will suffer more in low light I’m sure but then that’s why I have the R6 just in case.
 
That's fine and dandy but all the crippling makes them more of $800 and $1,300 models. In other words, lack of aspiration aside, these two models are just overpriced.
 
Thomas Smet said:
instead of investing in massive telephoto FF glass I think it makes more sense to invest in a R10. That way I have a nice matched backup when the R6 overheats. For wildlife stills the 1.6x at 24 MP likely out performs any teleconverter or larger FF lens on the 20 MP R6. At the very least at a fraction of the size.
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You're barking up the wrong tree, mate. For wildlife, it's all about the OM-1 with the 150-400 these days
 
And now Fuji's out, as was rumored expected, with X-H2S. A lot of quirks yet to be ironed out for a production model. Does have an internal 4:2:2 ProRes HQ and the external Raw. The auto focus maybe improved too.
 
DLD said:
And now Fuji's out, as was rumored expected, with X-H2S. A lot of quirks yet to be ironed out for a production model. Does have an internal 4:2:2 ProRes HQ and the external Raw. The auto focus maybe improved too.
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I would have been very interested in that pre-a7siii. There's a lot to like about Fuji. An awful lot of people are probably committed to either canon or sony by now
 
I think the new Fuji X-H2S looks really nice, the kind of video specs I was hoping for from the very disappointing Canon R7 - well done Fuji.
  • Fuјіfіlm Х-Н2Ѕ Dіgіtаl Саmеrа Воdу Кеу Fеаturеѕ:
  • А bасk-іllumіnаtеd 26.1МР Х-Тrаnѕ 5 ѕtасkеd іmаgіng ѕеnѕоr
  • Nехt-lеvеl реrfоrmаnсе frоm Lіghtnіng-fаѕt Х-Рrосеѕѕоr 5
  • Ехраndеd lоw lіght сараbіlіtіеѕ аnd uр tо 14-ѕtорѕ оf dуnаmіс rаngе
  • 3.0-іnсh, 1.62 mіllіоn dоt vаrі-аnglе tоuсh Ѕсrееn LСD mоnіtоr 5.76 mіllіоn dоt rеѕоlutіоn еlесtrоnіс vіеwfіndеr
  • Uр tо 40 frаmеѕ реr ѕесоnd uѕіng thе еlесtrоnіс ѕhuttеr
  • Uр tо 15 frаmеѕ реr ѕесоnd uѕіng thе mесhаnісаl ѕhuttеr
  • 4К/120Р, 6.2К/30Р аnd НD/240Р vіdео rесоrdіng fоrmаtѕ
  • Rесоrdѕ Аррlе РrоRеѕНQ іntеrnаllу іn 10-bіt аt 4:2:2
  • Nеwlу dеvеlореd Flоg2 еnсоdіng fоr grеаtеr dуnаmіс rаngе
  • Uр tо 7 ѕtорѕ оf Іntеrnаl Воdу Іmаgе Ѕtаbіlіѕаtіоn (ІВІЅ)
  • Оffеrѕ ехtеrnаl rесоrdіng оf РrоRеѕ Rаw аnd Вlасkmаgіс Rаw
  • Ѕubјесt dеtесtіоn wіth dеер lеаrnіng АІ аdарtіvе аutоfосuѕ Іdеntіfіеѕ аnd trасkѕ саrѕ, рlаnеѕ, trаіnѕ, bіrdѕ, hоrѕеѕ аnd mоrе
  • Соnѕіѕtеnt АF реrfоrmаnсе thаt wоrkѕ іn lіght lеvеlѕ аѕ lоw аѕ -7ЕV
Was interesting seeing Gerald Undone show how to squeeze out 14+ stops with the NR off and doing it in post. Not seen those sort of numbers on mirrorless before

Props for Fuji using full size hdmi too

The new video based 18-120mm parfocal zoom is also very welcome and a good price at $899, 16mm at the wide end would have been pretty much perfect but trying not to be greedy
 
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As always with Fujifilm and Panasonic, it's the total package besides video AF.

Saw a sample where it looked questionable, and GU confirmed my thoughts. (Canon and Sony simply won't let that go.)

If you don't need video AF, heck of a camera.
 
ahalpert said:
I would have been very interested in that pre-a7siii. There's a lot to like about Fuji. An awful lot of people are probably committed to either canon or sony by now
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It's basically made for people with those Fujunon manual 18-55 and 50-135 "cinema" lenses. Who also happen to dabble in photography now and again.

PS. I really liked the end of Undone's review, "Well, of the cameras in the same price range, GH-6 has this but not that and A7IV has the other thing but the third and XH2S has fourth but not the fifth" and my response is, "Heeheehee, welcome to the Japanese photo/video cartel. Waking up is hard to do".
 
For me the whole thing with Fuji is will they be around in a few years. They make some impressive cameras and lenses but I figured if I'm going to invest in a new mirrorless mount it was either going to be Sony or Canon. Not on ly will they likely be the last two players in the game but any future cinema cameras will likely use either mount.

The X-HS2 is impressive but its still APS-C at the end of the day and priced in FF territory. Its kind of in the same ballpark as the GH6. A 1.6x crop v s 2x crop is not that huge of a deal. Especially once you add a focal reducer to a GH6 which many out there already own along with a fine set of EF lenses.

I'm personally 100x more interested in the Canon R7 or R10 at a much lower price point that does very well at photos and 4k video. The R7 I feel can hold its own next to the Fuji and its $1,000 less meaning that money can be used towards lenses. Lenses that may have more of a future.

I will never buy a lesser known lens mount camera ever again. At least both Canon and Nikon have great older mount support to help the transition take time. Sony has been in the FF mirrorless game forever now and they support 3rd party lenses.

If I am picking ups a APSC camera now I'm not exactly looking for it to be a flagship model. I'm looking for a lower cost trimmed down option. Not a APSC Fuji camera that costs as much as the Canon R6.
 
Thomas Smet said:
For me the whole thing with Fuji is will they be around in a few years...
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The ILC sales are still tanking. I attribute the number of units sold to the pricing of the modern cameras. It's based on a legitimate concept - we can't compete with smartphones on value, so we might as move up a tier. The problem with the "up tier" is that Fuji, Sony, Olympus and Panasonic are still tied with the heavily crippled specs, so while their prices are higher, the camera performances are only marginally improved.

While smartphones are getting better and better.
 
DLD said:
The ILC sales are still tanking. I attribute the number of units sold to the pricing of the modern cameras. It's based on a legitimate concept - we can't compete with smartphones on value, so we might as move up a tier. The problem with the "up tier" is that Fuji, Sony, Olympus and Panasonic are still tied with the heavily crippled specs, so while their prices are higher, the camera performances are only marginally improved.

While smartphones are getting better and better.
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Smartphone shipments are also declining yoy (albeit much more modestly, like 5%). Analysts blame general economic headwinds and the chip shortage although I wonder if market saturation isn't part of it. I suppose it could also be a natural decline from pandemic spending patterns (ie goods-heavy spending)
 
Global smartphone shipments in millions -

Q2 2020 - 276
Q3 2020 - 365
Q4 2020 - 394
Q1 2021 - 355
Q2 2021 - 323
Q3 2021 - 342
Q4 2021 - 371
Q1 2022 - 326

https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/


It kind of jumps around a bit. IMO, these small jumps and slides could be attributed to a lot of factors. But one thing for sure, the Russian market with its 102M units is headed toward a toilet. Vlad thought the Chinese would bail him out but he misundercalculated (or is it misovercalculated?)
 
I still don't see what smartphones have to do with pro cameras at all. You are talking about two totally different markets. Those willing to settle for smartphone cameras likely were never going to buy a camera anyway. The phone camera is a cool bonus to them. A tool/toy they never had before. The cameras are a selling point to sell phones and not eat into pro camera sales. Most pros likely own a smartphone as well so so its not really a valid argument.

The cameras most of us are talking about on here are bought by those that would never settle for a smartphone. No matter how good they get visually they still lack in many other areas. Quick swap storage and batteries being two such areas. Nobody can do an all day shoot with a smartphone. Nor would they want to.

I just don't see much connection between bottom feeder cameras and the pro cameras. R6, A7S and GH6 sales are not down because of smartphones. Please any pros on here feel free to share if you decided to get rid of pro cameras and just use a smartphone. I bet there are not many. They are down because of a massively over saturated market and many cameras reaching a good enough level of quality for many people.

Cinema cameras have eaten up a good portion of the creative market as well. To many, DSLRs were a gateway and the best solution at the time but what they really wanted was a cinema camera. The P4k in my opinion took away a ton of DSLR sales. Sales that would have been there if there was no $1,300 cinema option with raw video and phenomenal 4k quality. GH5s sales sucked almost entirely because of the P4k. Long time Canon film makers frustrated moved to BMD as well.

Consumer camera sales are down and smartphones do play a part in that but its almost entirely pointless to group consumer and pro cameras together into the same stats. Two totally different markets and users. Thats like grouping bicycle and car sales into a single vehicle stat.
 
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