Canon is playing games....

[reem12]

I watched a couple of clips on vimeo last night that were so amazing that they almost had me puu the trigger on the camera today, but then I thought about it. the 24p will be coming from one of these guys sooner or later, and since canon keeps play these games, I'll keep my $2700 to myself until they stop playing their games. Nikon, now its your chance to take the market.

 

[reem12]

I just thought about something, what if canon has a firmware right now but will not release it until one of its competitors release their cam with the 24p and full hd res.. They may have already had it planed out from the begining, this way they can keep milking it for the canon a1s and can still remain competitive when the other companies release their new cams.

 

[ESTEBEVERDE]

I just thought about something, what if canon has a firmware right now but will not release it until one of its competitors release their cam with the 24p and full hd res.. They may have already had it planed out from the begining, this way they can keep milking it for the canon a1s and can still remain competitive when the other companies release their new cams.

This is most likely correct.

I am hedging my bets.

More to come later..... :beer:

 

[StormFactory]

Canon is making the biggest mistake ever.

My prediction is that Canon will make a 5D Mark II firmware release that will address most of our concerns. Here is why.

Canon, even more so than their camera bodies is at the top of their game because of their excellent quality lenses. My guess is that lenses is their bread and butter in the photography world.

The idea that Canon is loosing money to Nikon on their lenses is beyond bad business. Look at it like inkjet printers. Inkjet printers are sold at a loss because Epson, HP, Kodak, etc really make all their money selling you their high priced ink. This is their main business -- so much so that they put chips in their inkjet cartridges to keep you from refilling them or going with cheaper replacements.

Canon makes their money on their lenses. That is where the big dollars are. They are expensive and sharp and a lot of people feel worth every penny.

One of the main reasons people don't easily switch from Nikon to Canon or vice-versa is because they have so much invested in lenses. But not giving us the features that we professionally need Canon is now creating a community of Canon users that are actually crossing the aisle and buying Nikon lenses. Nikon lenses! Are you kidding me? This has got to be making Canon nuts.

The idea that this is going to cut into their video business is nowhere as bad as this cutting into their lens business and I bet you that Canon photographic and video divisions are in a cage match. But photo will win because if they give us the firmware that we want we will keep buying Canon. If they do not, we will buy Nikon and possible like Nikon lenses enough to try a Nikon camera. Then when Nikon comes out with a 5D Mark II competitor we would be more inclined to switch because we now own some Nikon lenses making the transition easier.

The reason giving us the 5D Mark II firmware update won't cut drastically into Canon's video business is because there still won't be continuous autofocus on the 5D Mark II. Granted the new Panasonic GH1 has it but that's for another post.

Canon needs to see the writing on the wall and understand that their users buying the competition's lenses is a game changing problem that can all be solved by updating the 5D Mark II software.

 

[ESTEBEVERDE]

I think you are very close to the truth of the matter.

I would just say the Nikon Lenses seem to be more favored at the moment and have a reputation for performing better.

If Canon wants to sell more of their lenses they need to make them invaluable to the 5D MK II as well as their camcorder lines.

This is coming...

Nikon has the field and can dash their hopes at domination with a game changing camera replete with full frame, manual control, and several frame rate options....

Sup to them....

Bahala Ka Na.....

 

[Lee Wilson]

I just thought about something, what if canon has a firmware right now but will not release it until one of its competitors release their cam with the 24p and full hd res.. They may have already had it planed out from the begining, this way they can keep milking it for the canon a1s and can still remain competitive when the other companies release their new cams.

If this theory has any validity - the recent announcement from Panasonic might prompt something from Canon. (????)

So much guess work though! Theories built on rumours based on notions ! :zombie_smiley:

 

[Lee Wilson]

. . . . Canon users that are actually crossing the aisle and buying Nikon lenses. Nikon lenses! Are you kidding me? This has got to be making Canon nuts.

I am not so sure about this theory.

Nikon lenses appeal mainly to owners using the 5D predominately for video (after all the 5D offers full manual control with Canon lenses for photographers).

I suspect the the casual user / photographer who wants to try a little bit of movie making - will simply use the Canon lenses they use for photography.

The 'video only' (or 'video predominately') market I would guess is small, maybe vanishingly small compared to the photography market for the 5D, and even within this section of people buying the 5D for video the majority will still use Canon lenses, leaving just a small fraction of a small area of the market buying Nikon lenses.

Even on forums like DVXuser and cinema5d.com - where video on the 5D takes precedence (which I maintain itself is a tiny fraction of the market) - the majority of people will still simply use Canon lenses.

A poll on cinema5D, arguably the epicentre of 5D2 videographers along with DVXuser - asks 'What's your choice of lens?' - the results are:

Canon 58%
Zeiss 15%
Nikon 12%

 

[Lee Wilson]

would just say the Nikon Lenses seem to be more favored at the moment . . .

Where ?

Within the small group of videographers buying the 5D for video only (or predominately) ?

Even within this tiny section Canon lenses are preferred - with only around 12% are buying Nikon lenses.

See post above.

 

[Chris_TC]

Lee Wilson is right. Almost nobody buys the camera to use it (almost) exclusively for video. So almost nobody will bother with manual lenses.

I'd love to have manual control on my 5DII, but I use it for both photo and video. And I'd rather leave the awesome 24-105L attached and be ready to shoot photo and video at any time (with IS it's totally hand-holdable too) than switch it out for some manual lens.

Yeah, a few people put Nikon aperture control lenses on their Mark II, but it's such a small fraction of the customer base that Canon won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Lee Wilson]

Lee Wilson is right.

It was bound to happen one day !

Almost nobody buys the camera to use it (almost) exclusively for video.

Yep! And of those few who do buy it for video I would say that the majority still buy Canon lenses.

Yeah, a few people put Nikon aperture control lenses on their Mark II, but it's such a small fraction of the customer base that Canon won't lose any sleep over it.

Agreed ! I doubt it has even registered on Canon's corporate radar.

 

[Elton]

"In the year 2000...."

Funny skit.

I know it seems a little 'out there' to talk about it, but in the future I don't think this stuff is just novelty to the consumer, and I bet motion smoothing makes its way onto computer screens with Nvidia, ATI, etc.

Yeah, I want 24p too, but does the average viewer watching a movie?

I was stunned by how my friend and others actually preferred the motion smoothed look and kept the setting on even when I showed the difference.

 

[ESTEBEVERDE]

I absolutely prefer higher frame rates and smoother motion.

I don't like strobing and stuttering.

I don't want discover channel movies though.

I do love shallow depth of field and a very dynamic range of colors and detail.

 

[TimeKoder13]

I am not so sure about this theory.

Nikon lenses appeal mainly to owners using the 5D predominately for video (after all the 5D offers full manual control with Canon lenses for photographers).

I suspect the the casual user / photographer who wants to try a little bit of movie making - will simply use the Canon lenses they use for photography.

The 'video only' (or 'video predominately') market I would guess is small, maybe vanishingly small compared to the photography market for the 5D, and even within this section of people buying the 5D for video the majority will still use Canon lenses, leaving just a small fraction of a small area of the market buying Nikon lenses.

Even on forums like DVXuser and cinema5d.com - where video on the 5D takes precedence (which I maintain itself is a tiny fraction of the market) - the majority of people will still simply use Canon lenses.

A poll on cinema5D, arguably the epicentre of 5D2 videographers along with DVXuser - asks 'What's your choice of lens?' - the results are:

Canon 58%
Zeiss 15%
Nikon 12%

I have both Canon, Sony and Panny gear but I hope uR wrong. I remember the day I saw the DVX 100 at some conference @2002 or something, blah blah East in NYC, Jacob Javitz, might've been DV Expo East and I was like "cool, but I get that look outta my Sony VX2K with a lil post playing around." I couldn't afford a DVX so I figured I could live without one. Boy did I not see the future. I hope Canon sees the future. Still don't know what I'm getting, but I need to make up my mind soon as I've got paying clients and guaranteed airplay if I deliver a professional looking music video. HV20 and HVX200A are in the stable but I've seen some incredible looking DSLR video footage from DJ D-NICE on his blog, he's the guy from KRS-ONE's old crew BDP and he's now a pro photographer, webmaster, and dj.

 

[f64manray]

24p. 30p. Pffft. Shoot whichever you prefer...but what if you don't really have a choice as to how the viewer sees it in the end?

Watching movies and SNL tonight on a friend's new 120hz 1080p Bravia TV gave me pause.

His TV was set...by default...with motion smoothing set to 'high'.

Made movies look like video. Made the beloved SNL digital shorts look like the video they really are.

An absolute abomination.

Yet...fascinating.

Love it or hate it...it's the future.

Interesting, I just bought a 52 inch samsung and had to decide on whether or not to get the 120hz feature. People go on about this 30 and 24 fps debate, but I think the real crisis is that people are going to be viewing their 24 fps in 120hz as the standard on their flat screen LCD TVs in the very near future yet I don't hear anyone voice any concerns about this.

This 120hz stuff is putrid. The actors seem separated from the movie. The only way I can describe it is that I'm no longer viewing the movie through the camera, but it seems like I'm on the set watching as they're filming the scene. Very distracting. Is this really progress! needless to say, I went with the 60hz model. I just can't handle the 120hz.