Canon is listening. Will Panasonic Follow?

I can't see how Panasonic doesn't realize that unless they offer native 24p for 720 and 1080 AVCHD that they will be losing most of their potential/current customers to the 7D & 5D. No ext. monitoring and a 17mbs codec is fine for me at $1500. If I would be able to get native 720/24p, then this camera would be a great investment. Even with all the conversion methods, mathematically 60p is not going to look as good as native 24p. I've done countless tests myself and so have others. I also have a fast computer that can (for the most) handle AVCHD. So having to remove pulldown for 1080 is an incredible waste of time.

I bought the GH1 because it !!WAS!! Panasonic. I formerly owned a DVX100b and shoot exclusively on an HVX200 at film school. I loved the image Panasonic puts out and have found there cameras reliable for capturing a filmic look. I for one am not the type of camera buyer who purchases a new camera every year. Being a recent student I purchased the GH1 for it features and price and can't afford to buy a new cam every year, even if it's just the body. I believe I'm probably not the only one in this situation.

I assume there will be many appealing factors to the GH2 (better codec, faster auto focus, better processer, etc) so Panasonic should not be afraid that if they add the 24p that it will dissuade people from purchasing the GH2.

I think we need to continue to find ways to get the word out about the communities unhappiness with this small (easily fixable) issue. Please let everyone know if there are any other suggestions on how to get the word out to Panasonic like the 5D Mark II people did with Canon. The petition was great. We need to keep the fire under Panasonic with things like that.
 
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Mk2 Sept 2008
Gh1 July 2009

really? it's going to be just shy of two years and the mk2 is just now getting a 24p firmware. the gh1 has barely been out 2months. where are your heads?
 
Ummm...our heads are in the place that it looks like they're supporting a product that's been out for 2 years with firmware updates and our new product is just gonna get ignored till the next piece of hardware comes out..
 
I can't see how Panasonic doesn't realize that unless they offer native 24p for 720 and 1080 AVCHD that they will be losing most of their potential/current customers to the 7D & 5D.
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I'd love to know the market research that went into that assertion.
 
I have to admit @ this point I couldn't care any less for gh2 or whatever camera's out there.
What I'm looking for are fast HD lenses primes/zooms.
Firmwares that will keep this camera going........
Fast continuos autofocus/better bitrates. Why not.
 
Car3o said:
Mk2 Sept 2008
Gh1 July 2009

really? it's going to be just shy of two years and the mk2 is just now getting a 24p firmware. the gh1 has barely been out 2months. where are your heads?
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2 years? It's not Sept. 2010 yet. 5D Mark II has been out just over 1 year. GH1 since April in Japan, June / July elsewhere.

I think Panasonic have lost a lot of 'prosumer' video orientated customers to Canon because of the bugs and lack of firmware update, myself included. Also the number of clips on Vimeo and YouTube from professionals using the 5D and 7D greatly out number the clips from pros using the GH1 so there is an issue here, but I doubt Panasonic can address all this with firmware. It's a new camera system and it needs to time to get noticed more widely.

The future is still bright for the G system. Remember, the EOS system has been established for much of the digital age, and so the number of calls from customers regarding a 5D firmware update was a lot greater than what I expect the GH1 generated. Canons are more common in the market. The companies are simply reacting to demand.
 
Car3o said:
Mk2 Sept 2008
Gh1 July 2009

really? it's going to be just shy of two years and the mk2 is just now getting a 24p firmware. the gh1 has barely been out 2months. where are your heads?
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The 5D has only been on the market for a little over a year. The 24p firmware has been announced. The manual controls firmware came a few months ago. These major firmware updates are not mere bug fixes. The 5D did not have the sort of bugs that the GH1 has.

The GH1 launched at the end of April, not in July. So far, Panasonic has stayed mum about the issues that users have raised. There have already been two firmware updates, and the only major change that they have introduced (not counting the tweaks and bug fixes) is to lock-out third-party batteries. When comparing the behavior of the two companies, Panasonic certainly doesn't look good.
 
Ben_B said:
Lastly: yes Panasonic, take care of us, come on. Wow. Just wow.
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Completely agree...the press release for the GH1 only came out in March of this year, and even now it's relatively tough to find a GH1 here in the states. I'll bet its not too long before we get a meaningful firmware update, there's so much buzz about this camera and so many folks interested in it, that I can't imagine Panasonic is going to turn its back on so many potentially new converts to its camera system.

For me, my favorite thing about the GH1 is the ability to put nearly any lens ever made on to this sucker...no other DSLR can touch it in that respect, and for me that counts for a lot, it's low light performance is excellent, I just can't wait to begin production on the feature I'm shooting this January with the GH1 and loads of Canon FD & Zeiss Lenses. Shooting in Boston...in January...FUN!

If money were no object, I suppose the Canon system is maybe where I'd go...the cost of the camera isn't too bad, but the lenses (while worth it) are quite expensive if you want to put together fast primes covering lots of focal lengths, and want anything bordering on exotic (i.e. superfast lenses and tilt/shifts) and I prefer the feel of Manual Focus lenses anyways...

Considering you can pick up Canon FD glass for so very little, and it's so good, often as good as newer generation glass, it's something that really not be overlooked...exotic lenses in older mounts can be so much cheaper than the modern equivalents, it's amazing, and I think the overall build quality is better with the older stuff too. Not only that, for narrative work, it's almost desirable to have lenses that are sharp, but not *too* sharp...I've certainly heard the criticism before from other filmmakers that some modern lenses really are *too* sharp.

I got a west german made Zeiss 50mm f1.4 for Rollei SL35 mount that I'm using on the GH1 with a Rollei-Eos/Eos-m43 adapter and that lens cost me $200...the modern ZF Zeiss 50mm f1.4 is what $600-700? and it's still manual aperture, manual focus, and *not* made in West Germany...the low cost of good old lenses I think are what really make the GH1 such a good option, I just love this camera.
 
in all defense to panny, the camera in it's pre build was shown off a lot before anybody had a chance to buy it, everybody knew it's limitations, codec issues, and that it was using advanced pulldown. anybody who bought it and isn't happy with it because of those issues, it's simply their own fault because it's been discussed to death and is still being discussed to death as i'm writing this right now. every camera in its kind has its limitations, it's all about cost benefit. gh1 is dirt cheap, super light and tiny, swivel lcd, and you push yourself to get somthing good out of it like any other camera, shoot it's strengths and avoid the weaknesses and your going to get something wonderful out of it.

asking for these changes are a lot easier said then done, 17 mbps to 24 mpbps is a decent amount of bandwidth to ask for in a increase, are the processors in there capable of it? possibly. will it increase heat and noise issues? most likely. 24 mpbs and full raster 1080/24 no pulldown, even more for the processors to do to crunch out the kind of stuff you want. why didn't they just build a better sensor then? probably a lot of reasons. be more cost effective for one, trying to keep a super small form factor another, pushing their micro 4/3 line even more probably due to a decent success with the original g1, and also probably not wanting to cut into their HMC line of sales because they make this one too good, it's gonna compete against the rest of their lines. it's all still a business after all.

i'm sure we are gonna have a gh2 in 6 months and it's gonna have a lot more to it. at least they aren't coming out with a camera every 2 months like canon and leaving you nothing to look forward to and having you buy and sell your camera bodies every other day. just be glad we have these kind of options, years ago this was just a pipe dream. and personally i think one of the best things about gh1 is that you can get any swinging camera mount you want for it and mix and match any lense you want on it. the benefits of that are wonderful!
 
ydgmdlu said:
The 5D has only been on the market for a little over a year. The 24p firmware has been announced. The manual controls firmware came a few months ago. These major firmware updates are not mere bug fixes. The 5D did not have the sort of bugs that the GH1 has.

The GH1 launched at the end of April, not in July. So far, Panasonic has stayed mum about the issues that users have raised. There have already been two firmware updates, and the only major change that they have introduced (not counting the tweaks and bug fixes) is to lock-out third-party batteries. When comparing the behavior of the two companies, Panasonic certainly doesn't look good.
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If feels like its been out for 2 months only because Panasonic took forever to mass produce.
 
xmephestox said:
i'm sure we are gonna have a gh2 in 6 months and it's gonna have a lot more to it. at least they aren't coming out with a camera every 2 months like canon and leaving you nothing to look forward to and having you buy and sell your camera bodies every other day. just be glad we have these kind of options, years ago this was just a pipe dream. and personally i think one of the best things about gh1 is that you can get any swinging camera mount you want for it and mix and match any lense you want on it. the benefits of that are wonderful!
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I must completely disagree with your statement about canon leaving you to sell your camera bodies. Maybe you did not read this whole thread, but canon has been doing a good job updating the MarkII 5D, and breaking away from previous company policy of ONLY fixing bugs and not adding features.

Here's the proof if you need it again http://www.dpreview.com/news/0910/09102003eos5dfirmware.asp

On the other hand, panasonic has been very quiet and is not communicating with the community. Have they addressed any issues with the camera that have been brought up and proven?
This only leaves us to speculate. And its a speculation on your part that the cpu cannot handle 24mbps. Some even believe higher bitrate means less compression, thus less CPU processing.

Anyways, this thread is not about how great or how bad the GH1 is.
 
Camera Expert said:
To be fair, the GH1 outputs a true 720 60p signal. The GF1’s chip outputs 30p and doubles it in the codec. In other words, the GH1’s 720p mode is infinite times better. The GH1's 720 60p mode is also better than the 7D's.

With that said, I also hope Panasonic takes Canon example and add more 1080 modes. The least they can do is fix the 24p mode. All people ask is native 24p from the beginning. We shouldn't need to deal with removing pull down.
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Just to add to my 720p/1080i comment.

"t is missing a few features of it’s big brother the GH1, no flip out screen, no electronic viewfinder and no Full HD. But the screen is nicer, you can add an electronic viewfinder to it and to be honest 720p on the GH1 is what I use anyway as I find the 1080p a little weak codec wise."
http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/10/19/the-panasonic-lumix-gf1-z-finder-fits-on-it-very-well/

Sorry slow day at work :grin:
 
Okay, a few things to keep in perspective:
1) Panasonic, on the pro/broadcast side, has been the most-listening, most-communicative, most-proactive company of them all.
2) This is really the first time we (DVXUser) have dealt with any product from the consumer side of the business.
3) The GH1's been out in very limited quantities for 3 months. The 5D Mark II was out for nearly a year.
4) Companies are not used to being yanked around on the end of the consumer's chain, and dancing when ordered to dance.

I can guarantee you that Panasonic is listening. If it is possible to fix it, I am certain that they will, companies usually use firmware updates to fix bugs and address compatibility issues.

As to the other things that people want, such as no pulldown or higher bitrates or whatever -- some of those things may not be possible to do in a firmware update. Some might be hardware limitations. We don't know what's possible. It sure would be nice to get someone from Panasonic Consumer to communicate with us to let us know, but that hasn't happened and I don't know that it will happen, either. Nobody from Canon Consumer or Nikon Consumer or JVC Consumer or Sony Consumer communicates back with us, and -- for that matter, nobody from Sony, JVC, or Canon broadcast/professional communicates back with us either.

Panasonic remains the only broadcast company that has a presence here, that directly communicates with us.

I can only hope that their consumer side will follow suit. But even if they don't, that leaves them in the same boat as everyone else.

As for if/when a firmware update will come out, that is absolutely anyone's guess.
 
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my theory, panny will release a professional m43 camera next year.

no more cutesy cam (gf1).. no more 'tiniest' interchangeable cam (gh1)..

it should be built bigger, better processor...
but itll still be 24 on 60i... LOL
 
This intial concept of this thread seems so conveluded and doesn't take into the account the years upon years where Panasonic has been listening to its customers, been on this site, and been implementing our requests into its products. This view is a recent one, and it just seems to only see the current state of affairs as the end all be all. What's happened is the other manufacturers have taken notice of this site, and of people like Jan coming on this site to comment and educate, and also to LISTEN. I think you'll see some great products come out from every manufacturer, as they realize that things and times have changed. Social networking site, the internet and rapid fanboys are where things are at...
 
Barry Green and Justyn are completely correct. Unfortunately it will be overlooked and thrown out as nonsense by the bash mob. :violent5:
 
I'm a big Panasonic fan and I think they will address a lot of our concerns as well. They know they need to keep us. I think they know the competition the 5d/7d places on their product. I love my GH1 and if the mud issue was resolved, I'd be 100% happy with it. Mud and FPN and I'd be ecstatic. For 1,500 this camera is the most insane deal I've ever seen.
 
commanderspike said:
2 years? It's not Sept. 2010 yet. 5D Mark II has been out just over 1 year. GH1 since April in Japan, June / July elsewhere.

I think Panasonic have lost a lot of 'prosumer' video orientated customers to Canon because of the bugs and lack of firmware update, myself included. Also the number of clips on Vimeo and YouTube from professionals using the 5D and 7D greatly out number the clips from pros using the GH1 so there is an issue here, but I doubt Panasonic can address all this with firmware. It's a new camera system and it needs to time to get noticed more widely.

The future is still bright for the G system. Remember, the EOS system has been established for much of the digital age, and so the number of calls from customers regarding a 5D firmware update was a lot greater than what I expect the GH1 generated. Canons are more common in the market. The companies are simply reacting to demand.
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the firmware won't be out until 2010 fella. that's just shy of two years. boy oh boy.
 
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