Canon EOS C100

The film was done with the new extended DR 709 profile. Perhaps the problems are endemic to that profile. It is not clear that it extends the DR range In ways that are filmic. The director said that he liked to crush the blacks in post. He co pared the C100 codec and image tot he 5d MKii, so perhaps that is why he gave us DSLRlike images, he simply likes that look. while that is his choice, it does not help people who are looking to find images that lead them above DSLR filming.
 
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JoCu said:
He said that he was asked to use a certain picture profile called "Wide DR Gamma," and that it is [80%] of C-Log and that "you have no obligation to color grading."

He begins to talk about this at around 2:05
https://vimeo.com/49198191#

He also states that he crushed the blacks far on purpose.
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That would reduce DR considerably. Not sure if he meant that wide DR gamma extends 709 by 800%, which is the Canon advertising log line.
 
Perhaps, it was difficult to understand. I assumed he meant 80% of what log can do as far as dynamic range.
 
Canon has stated that the goal of Wide DR Gamma was to try to push the full DR range into a 709 profile, so I asumed that this is what he meant. Either way we have established that Wide DR Gamma falls apart suddenly when Highlights are pushed. Since the FS100 does the same thing perhaps they are doing much the same DR compression internally.

What Canon has not clarified is where the additional DR range comes with Wide DR Gamma, if it was at the lower end then the deliberate crushing of blacks would destroy whatever advantage Wide DR gave you. Perhaps this extended lower range bothered this director and that is why he felt compiled to comment that he had to crush the blacks. if we knew where the extended range came from then we could expose and adjust ISO appropriately.

This was not a decent test of Wide DR, let alone the DR and codec of the camera at it's extremes.
 
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I agree. It would make sense that the extra range to be in the black, and since they crushed them, it was lost. This would also mean that it would appear less "filmic" with the highlights blowing out and the blacks keeping extra range. It sounds more geared towards ENG run and gun that won't get much of a grade, if any, and certain types of documentaries.

I look forward to future videos from this camera, because there are two projects I have coming up that I think might be perfect for this camera. It is being released fairly soon, and I'm sure we'll see more shortly.
 
From what I have found on the net, it does indeed look like he is/was a DSLR shooter. It would make sense considering the "look" of the video. Something to keep in mind.
 
Just because it has the same sensor as the C300 does mean it will be like the C300, look at the FS100 that has the same sensor as the F3. So we cannot ignore the possibility that it is camera 8 bit banding, not Vimeo or grading.
 
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I think it will be great as B cam for C300 or as A cam for 5dmk3. The footage looked not great, but it showed it could handle many different situations, which is great if you do journalistic documentary type shooting. I like the footage from BMC cinema camera, but I can already see BMC is for well controlled stationary type shooting.

But I have to say $6499 body only is a bit too high. $5499 body only would have been really tempting.
 
Simon Shasha said:
Possibly. Looks pretty grimey. Especially next to a "similar styled" BMC video that just went up: https://vimeo.com/49199056
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I wish people would stop comparing the BMC and the C100. They are really two different beasts with each having strengths and weakness. The BMC having that lovely 13 stops DR but at a cost of 30 mins or so at 256GB. The C100 having ergonomics with a long and cheap recording format and the ability of external recording to say a Atomos. But really, they are just two different tools. C100 is ready out of the box and with 2 batteries you will shoot all day with full native function. The BMC will NOT cost you $3000 as it WILL need rigging, sound, ND, battery solutions, capture storage and backup storage that will cost you a pretty penny. C100 will go places the BMC won't just due to design and ergonomics. Both are great cameras. But both will do what the other will struggle at. One side is camera build, the other is final image DR but at a cost.
 
dustylense said:
I wish people would stop comparing the BMC and the C100. They are really two different beasts with each having strengths and weakness. The BMC having that lovely 13 stops DR but at a cost of 30 mins or so at 256GB. The C100 having ergonomics with a long and cheap recording format and the ability of external recording to say a Atomos. But really, they are just two different tools. C100 is ready out of the box and with 2 batteries you will shoot all day with full native function. The BMC will NOT cost you $3000 as it WILL need rigging, sound, ND, battery solutions, capture storage and backup storage that will cost you a pretty penny. C100 will go places the BMC won't just due to design and ergonomics. Both are great cameras. But both will do what the other will struggle at. One side is camera build, the other is final image DR but at a cost.
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Glad I'm not the only one tired of the comparison.
 
dustylense said:
I wish people would stop comparing the BMC and the C100. They are really two different beasts with each having strengths and weakness. The BMC having that lovely 13 stops DR but at a cost of 30 mins or so at 256GB. The C100 having ergonomics with a long and cheap recording format and the ability of external recording to say a Atomos. But really, they are just two different tools. C100 is ready out of the box and with 2 batteries you will shoot all day with full native function. The BMC will NOT cost you $3000 as it WILL need rigging, sound, ND, battery solutions, capture storage and backup storage that will cost you a pretty penny. C100 will go places the BMC won't just due to design and ergonomics. Both are great cameras. But both will do what the other will struggle at. One side is camera build, the other is final image DR but at a cost.
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Why do you care if someone else wants to compare the two cameras? It makes perfect sense to me. By the time you rig out the BMC it will be around the cost of a C100 or more, so I think it's completely appropriate to compare the workflow, flexibility and image of both. Personally, I like the images coming out of the BMC a little more, they are very filmic. However, I don't like cameras that have to be frankenrigged. That's why I work with the Af100. I don't like using a mattebox and rails and a lot of assorted hanger-ons when I'm running around grabbing shots, so the C100 seems like a better fit for me. That being said...the C100 doesn't do overcranking which plays a role in nearly every shoot I produce. Neither does the BMC though ;)

For the last year and a half I have waited for RED, Canon or Panasonic to release a camera that compares features-wise to the Af100 with a better image and an S35 or similar sensor for under 6k. Still hasn't happened.
 
traviswears said:
Why do you care if someone else wants to compare the two cameras? It makes perfect sense to me. By the time you rig out the BMC it will be around the cost of a C100 or more, so I think it's completely appropriate to compare the workflow
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I couldn't agree more. I have no idea why this person continues to tell people the way he thinks they should express their thoughts.
Some people just have an unusually high opinion of their opinions.
But of course, these are legitimate comparisons being offered by people considering one or both cameras...or other options that can be compared by intelligent users.

Built out the BMC will approach the price of a C100 and the idea that one camera is absolutely for one use versus another simply doesn't wash in the day to day reality of production.
The lines are crossed everyday depending on the producer and circumstances.
BMCs will be used for docs and commercials and corporate work as will the C100 which some folks will also shoot narrative with.
Their different strengths and weaknesses are obvious in comparison and intelligent discussion of such will always enlighten some readers.

These are discussions where we take the known facts and weigh them as to particular merits as we see fit.
No need for snarky superior attitudes.
 
jimagine said:
I couldn't agree more. I have no idea why this person continues to tell people the way he thinks they should express their thoughts.
Some people just have an unusually high opinion of their opinions.
But of course, these are legitimate comparisons being offered by people considering one or both cameras...or other options that can be compared by intelligent users.

Built out the BMC will approach the price of a C100 and the idea that one camera is absolutely for one use versus another simply doesn't wash in the day to day reality of production.
The lines are crossed everyday depending on the producer and circumstances.
BMCs will be used for docs and commercials and corporate work as will the C100 which some folks will also shoot narrative with.
Their different strengths and weaknesses are obvious in comparison and intelligent discussion of such will always enlighten some readers.

These are discussions where we take the known facts and weigh them as to particular merits as we see fit.
No need for snarky superior attitudes.
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Approach the cost of the C100?
Lets look at some simple figures needed for BMC:
Rig and cage: let's spend $1500
ND solution: We'll go vari ND and buy the Heliopan $500
Audio: We'll go dual sound and save H4n: $250
External monitoring: We will go Dp6: $1100
Battery solution and we'll go cheap: 2 swixtronix $600
Now lets take a 32bg card storage of the C100 and match in SSD for RAW (3 hours runtime): Avg price for 256gb=$200. Need 6 of these for 3 hours run time=$1200.

Lets add: Total $5150, then add $3000= $8150.

Lets then add monster computer to handle footage, monster amounts of storage in field and in house???

Approaching the C100? Really?

Out of the Box the C100 will be ready to shoot. All you need is 1 extra battery and a 32gb SD card to shoot all day!

Different beasts! And I want both! I want BMC for specialty shots and C100 as run and gun DOC do everything cam with option of external recorder that works really well with the millions of Canon glass out there and the $20,000 worth that I already own.

ANd finally, why come into a C100 thread and throw around the BMC specs? This is a C100 info thread. Wanna compare? Create a new thread maybe?

Snaky superior attitude? What? Debating? Did I use that language towards others in this thread? The attitude is with you my friend...
 
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jimagine said:
These are discussions where we take the known facts and weigh them as to particular merits as we see fit.
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+ 1

People are comparing C100 to BMC because, for low-budget indie-filmmakers, they are in direct competition with one another - specs and price-wise. I don't think cameras should be relegated to a certain genre of filmmaking. In regards to the C100 or BMC, you could make a film on either, or a documentary on either. For me personally, the BMC seems to offer more image-quality for my dollar, and also, even after I decked out my BMC, it still works out cheaper.

So far, I've spent $300 on a 6-hour external-battery grip, $140 on a set of 82mm Tiffen NDs for my Sigma 20mm F1.8 and 10-20mm F3.5, and $380 on 2 x 240GB Sandisk Extreme SSDs (I plan to shoot only in ProResHQ 220Mbit for now, so that's up to 5-hours of recording time). I hate rigs, I use a combination of monopod and tripod - I do have a Redrock rig I put together for my 7D years ago, but I barely every use it. I usually pull focus by eye and hand. If need be, I have a follow-focus and marker-wheel also from my 7D rig-build. So all up $300 + $140 + $380 = $820 (+ $3080 for my BMC) = $3900.

I say compare away - exchange ideas, see what others think and hopefully they can help you spend your hard-earned-cash correctly. Camera comparison is pretty much at the soul of these forums.
 
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