Canon EOS C100

I don't think it is difficult to understand that every renting company will like camera to stay very high price. But I think that it will not stay too long because once something gets in the realm of digital, prices are bound to decrease dramatically. The video camera industry has tried to keep it high as long as they could. Many think that it is some super tech in those cameras, that cost a fortune etc. But the real cost is coming from side technology or company. If somebody told these people that they would have a vista vision camera to shoot video for $ 2500 four years ago they would have laugh at you. If you would have told them that six month ago that you would have a raw shooting large sensor camera with 13 stop of DR for $ 3000 they would have told you, that you are insane and send you to an asylum.

What people don't see is that technology has advance by leap and bound and that the real revolution came from companies outside the Camera video division. One is the large sensor that came from an accident from the dslr doing video. Now the second revolution is coming from Blackmagic, a video hardware making company. Take the case of a sister technology to see how the video world has not evolved. Today you can buy an entry level Nikon D3200 with 24 megapixel for less than $ 700 with a lens. I am not a big fan of that much pixel, but you can see how the tech is evolving. I can bet that we will have a camera with the image very close to the Alexa in the next 2/4 years for less than $ 10k or even $ 5k.

If the rumors coming from gh3 are true, I would also wait to see what Panaonic have for there next large sensor camera.
 
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Philip-
I owe you some money I think!...anyway, I wouldn't be so hard on Canon support at this time. The sales & tech teams, for the most part, only got introduced to the C100 last Weds & Thurs....I would never expect support to be up and running with solid info the day a product was introduced/announced. Also, if you remember, Canon has a long history of "tweaking" codecs...they did it with HDV and they've done it with the XF codec....they always seem to get more out of the "spec"...for example, that is why there is no 8 bit issues with the 8 bit XF codec.
Back to the C100, I can't stress enough about the camera having the same chip as the 300 & 500...that is HUGE. It is a very special chip (with the double green and not being de-bayered) and will save you money on every shoot (you'll use a 1/3 of the lights you would normally use).....and, unlike the BMC, you won't need to buy a bunch of extras to make the camera function.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
 
Anyway I question the need for 1080p60. Unless this is used for slow motion Blu-Ray players will require a firmware upgrade to play AVCHD 1080p60. For now 720p60 will be the most practical way to deliver quality high definition content.
 
androbot2084 said:
Anyway I question the need for 1080p60. Unless this is used for slow motion Blu-Ray players will require a firmware upgrade to play AVCHD 1080p60. For now 720p60 will be the most practical way to deliver quality high definition content.
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Yes, but the concern seems to be that the C100 doesn't do 60p at any resolution, not even in 720p. The closest appears to be 1080i. 1080i can be convereted into 60p, but it's an extra step. Would be nicer to have 720p60 at least.
 
Can you say wedding film... I'm not one of them, but there are a lot of guys who's bread and butter is this high end cinematic wedding. They captured the market with the canon look, they have lenses already, just need a more appropriate camera. Needs low light, built in ND's. sony missed on ND, panasonic missed on low-light. Street price will be key for this market.

If it can mirror the C300 look, I think many will be impressed.
 
Unfortunately 720p is not universally recognized as a full high definition format even though it is vastly superior to 1080i. So when the camera is announced the marketers have only focused on the so called full high definition 1080 specifications. Hopefully 720p will later be announced as an afterthought capability of the camera.
 
Well in the US 720p60 is one of two HD broadcast standards. The other being 1080i (boo, hiss) I know cinema and drama only use 720p60 for slo-mo effects but other material might just be shot in 60p. It is just short sided when virtually every other HD camera in the past 4 years has 720p60.
 
I haven't shot in 720/60P in a long time. None of my clients request it. I shoot a lot in 1080/30P and 24P. Even though my FS100 can shoot in 1080/60P, I have yet to use that format. The C100's lack of 1080/60P isn't a concern to me.
 
My thoughts about the lack of 720/60p. Place yourself in a committee marketing chair at Canon headquarters and you're the CFO. Here we are trying to sell another offering on the C100 after releasing the 300 and 500. The C100 is for the so called sub $10k market. How are we gonna release this camera without denting sales of the C300? Because the C100 has 422 8/bit out HDMI uncompressed, the best way to protect the C300 is to not include SDI and let's also omit 720/60p. Without omission of those 2 items, users could just attach an external recorder and therefore C300 sales DROP like a brick. Canon is in business as a business. And that is to make profit. Lot's of $$$$$$$'s went into R&D for the C300. They probably still haven't reached the initial investment to design, manufacture, and market the camera. Every product Canon, SOny, Panny, Nikon makes has a formula to reach a profit. And low end models can't have all the goodies the high end models contain, especially if it's the first design.
Then there is the old rule of supply and demand. How many units they predict will sale based on research dictates initial price based upon the market. Not until they see hard numbers can they begin to lower the cost of the product and successors. If Canon could guarantee their profit margin, the product could be set cheaper. Plus, they can't allow their products to compete with each other. Thats just business.

About announcements. Don't think for a second that there is not a large team as we speak keyword searching the C100 to see what we "THE MARKET" are saying and reacting to the announcement. They already have the production line set up for manufacture. Money is spent and invested. THey set a MSRP and they are always high, but in competitive range. They are reading blogs, contacting dealers with input and feedback (not your sales boy, but the initial corporate suppliers) and are doing crazy amounts of math to see just where the camera will fit in the roadmap of the C100. It's all planned out with speculation of how long they intend to place it on the market until the next camera release. You think for a second that they are not doing R&D on their in camera RAW motion devices?

So yes, they kept the 720/60p out so you will consider the C300 as a purchase. It's just that simple. They are not trying to rip you off. They are trying to protect a product line that they have spent Millions on. The great thing is you don't have to buy it. But the unfortunate thing is that there are people pissing on it without seeing a single frame shot from it. Some are just getting TOO spoiled lately. If this camera in your future business plan can make you money with cost vrs profit and usability (how it fits your work and workflow), then sit down and write up your 1st quarter 2013 business plan and see if it fits with the inventory and speculation you have for 2013. If you're not doing at least ONE business plan a year, why are you in business. Don't any of you sit with your accountant/financial advisor? If not, I suggest you find one.
 
dustylense said:
My thoughts about the lack of 720/60p. Place yourself in a committee marketing chair at Canon headquarters and you're the CFO. Here we are trying to sell another offering on the C100 after releasing the 300 and 500. The C100 is for the so called sub $10k market. How are we gonna release this camera without denting sales of the C300? Because the C100 has 422 8/bit out HDMI uncompressed, the best way to protect the C300 is to not include SDI and let's also omit 720/60p. Without omission of those 2 items, users could just attach an external recorder and therefore C300 sales DROP like a brick. Canon is in business as a business. And that is to make profit. Lot's of $$$$$$$'s went into R&D for the C300. They probably still haven't reached the initial investment to design, manufacture, and market the camera. Every product Canon, SOny, Panny, Nikon makes has a formula to reach a profit. And low end models can't have all the goodies the high end models contain, especially if it's the first design.
Then there is the old rule of supply and demand. How many units they predict will sale based on research dictates initial price based upon the market. Not until they see hard numbers can they begin to lower the cost of the product and successors. If Canon could guarantee their profit margin, the product could be set cheaper. Plus, they can't allow their products to compete with each other. Thats just business.

About announcements. Don't think for a second that there is not a large team as we speak keyword searching the C100 to see what we "THE MARKET" are saying and reacting to the announcement. They already have the production line set up for manufacture. Money is spent and invested. THey set a MSRP and they are always high, but in competitive range. They are reading blogs, contacting dealers with input and feedback (not your sales boy, but the initial corporate suppliers) and are doing crazy amounts of math to see just where the camera will fit in the roadmap of the C100. It's all planned out with speculation of how long they intend to place it on the market until the next camera release. You think for a second that they are not doing R&D on their in camera RAW motion devices?

So yes, they kept the 720/60p out so you will consider the C300 as a purchase. It's just that simple. They are not trying to rip you off. They are trying to protect a product line that they have spent Millions on. The great thing is you don't have to buy it. But the unfortunate thing is that there are people pissing on it without seeing a single frame shot from it. Some are just getting TOO spoiled lately. If this camera in your future business plan can make you money with cost vrs profit and usability (how it fits your work and workflow), then sit down and write up your 1st quarter 2013 business plan and see if it fits with the inventory and speculation you have for 2013. If you're not doing at least ONE business plan a year, why are you in business. Don't any of you sit with your accountant/financial advisor? If not, I suggest you find one.
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Yay, someone with sense. ;)
Anyway, I look forward to the c100 and if the price is right, why not? Don't you just hate it when poeple keep harping over one tiny detail and pissing themselves. It's just 60p, its not the end of the world.
 
dustylense said:
My thoughts about the lack of 720/60p. Place yourself in a committee marketing chair at Canon headquarters and you're the CFO. Here we are trying to sell another offering on the C100 after releasing the 300 and 500. The C100 is for the so called sub $10k market. How are we gonna release this camera without denting sales of the C300? Because the C100 has 422 8/bit out HDMI uncompressed, the best way to protect the C300 is to not include SDI and let's also omit 720/60p. Without omission of those 2 items, users could just attach an external recorder and therefore C300 sales DROP like a brick. Canon is in business as a business. And that is to make profit. Lot's of $$$$$$$'s went into R&D for the C300. They probably still haven't reached the initial investment to design, manufacture, and market the camera. Every product Canon, SOny, Panny, Nikon makes has a formula to reach a profit. And low end models can't have all the goodies the high end models contain, especially if it's the first design.
Then there is the old rule of supply and demand. How many units they predict will sale based on research dictates initial price based upon the market. Not until they see hard numbers can they begin to lower the cost of the product and successors. If Canon could guarantee their profit margin, the product could be set cheaper. Plus, they can't allow their products to compete with each other. Thats just business.

About announcements. Don't think for a second that there is not a large team as we speak keyword searching the C100 to see what we "THE MARKET" are saying and reacting to the announcement. They already have the production line set up for manufacture. Money is spent and invested. THey set a MSRP and they are always high, but in competitive range. They are reading blogs, contacting dealers with input and feedback (not your sales boy, but the initial corporate suppliers) and are doing crazy amounts of math to see just where the camera will fit in the roadmap of the C100. It's all planned out with speculation of how long they intend to place it on the market until the next camera release. You think for a second that they are not doing R&D on their in camera RAW motion devices?

So yes, they kept the 720/60p out so you will consider the C300 as a purchase. It's just that simple. They are not trying to rip you off. They are trying to protect a product line that they have spent Millions on. The great thing is you don't have to buy it. But the unfortunate thing is that there are people pissing on it without seeing a single frame shot from it. Some are just getting TOO spoiled lately. If this camera in your future business plan can make you money with cost vrs profit and usability (how it fits your work and workflow), then sit down and write up your 1st quarter 2013 business plan and see if it fits with the inventory and speculation you have for 2013. If you're not doing at least ONE business plan a year, why are you in business. Don't any of you sit with your accountant/financial advisor? If not, I suggest you find one.
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What you mean is that they are not caring at all about the market, living in an aquarium without any concern about what there competitor or joe public is looking for. Because it surely sound like that, I can guaranty you that slowmo is the new super shalow dof. You will see for the next 2 to 4 years from right to left, up and down, slow motion in everything. When the $ 500 Sony nex-n to the 240 fps fs 700 and all the in between camera like the fs100 and rumored gh3 will offer at least 1080p at 60 fps, they are really living in there own dream world.

I see many sweating, when the director or wedding clients telling them what cool thing they saw in slow motion from the latest advert or music video or wedding friends or on the net. If you look at my post before, I was quite positive if the price of the camera was in the 6k range, but not offering at least 60fps at 720p is just ridiculous for 2012. I guest it is the price when you start with the C300 which itself was so low on spec with such a high price.
 
It's a very strange move by Canon.

If you had, say, $6k-$8k to spend and you were put off by the fact that the C100 doesn't have 60p... Would you think "I'll save up for the C300"... or would you think "I'll buy an FS700".

In trying to protect their high end gear, they just push people into the arms of other companies.
 
Well 60p,or not the advance price of the C100 has been rising in European stores, Frm $6300 to nearly $7000, suggesting market demand and a higher final sales price everywhere.
 
As a colourist seeing pictures from C300 and comparing them to FS100 it's a no brainer to me. I don't know much about FS700 though... but if the pictures are similar to FS100 then I can see why one would consider C100 at roughly the same price point even without slow-mo.

Does FS700 have "LOG" function?
 
KINOKS said:
As a colourist seeing pictures from C300 and comparing them to FS100 it's a no brainer to me. I don't know much about FS700 though... but if the pictures are similar to FS100 then I can see why one would consider C100 at roughly the same price point even without slow-mo.

Does FS700 have "LOG" function?
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Keep in mind, the C300 has 50mbps, 4:2:2 color, whereas the FS100/700 have 24mbps, 4:2:0 - just like the C100 will.
 
KINOKS said:
As a colourist seeing pictures from C300 and comparing them to FS100 it's a no brainer to me. I don't know much about FS700 though... but if the pictures are similar to FS100 then I can see why one would consider C100 at roughly the same price point even without slow-mo.

Does FS700 have "LOG" function?
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only cine like gamma (but it is said to have 12 stops of DR?)
 
philiplipetz said:
Well 60p,or not the advance price of the C100 has been rising in European stores, Frm $6300 to nearly $7000, suggesting market demand and a higher final sales price everywhere.
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Well, this sucks.
Oh well, I usually buy my cameras used. Let someone else pay the initial depreciation.
 
KINOKS said:
As a colourist seeing pictures from C300 and comparing them to FS100 it's a no brainer to me. I don't know much about FS700 though... but if the pictures are similar to FS100 then I can see why one would consider C100 at roughly the same price point even without slow-mo.

Does FS700 have "LOG" function?
Click to expand...

Our editor complained about FS100 color so much that our producer finally sold the FS100s. She LOVES C300 footage, and we will see if C100 AVCHD grades as well, if not the she will demand we deliver with ProRes recorders.
 
philiplipetz said:
Our editor complained about FS100 color so much that our producer finally sold the FS100s. She LOVES C300 footage, and we will see if C100 AVCHD grades as well, if not the she will demand we deliver with ProRes recorders.
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My point exactly.

I wasn't even thinking of compression here. Wouldn't even dream of shooting in AVCHD. But if C100 won't have 4:2:2 out of HDMI, then it's only (IMHO), or in other words, it's biggest plus - it's image quality - will be
rendered obsolete. So I really don't see why a sane person would limit the C100s HDMI to only 4:2:0
 
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Jim Martin at FilmTools called up the Canon engineers and the LOCKING HDMI output is 8 bit 4:2:2 with 3:2 pulldown, the same as the C300 if I remember correctly.
 
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