Canon APS-C sized Video Camera

Once you go RED, you never go back....trust me on that! I can't stand looking at any of the sub $8K cameras from either Canon, Panasonic or Sony anymore.
The scarlet is technologically more advanced than the RED one.... and Canon and other companies are going to have a hard time competing with its quality. But what you all take for granted is the support that RED offers. RED has been able to implement and give us many changes FOR FREE through simple downloads to the firmware...I don't know of any other companies that listen so closely to what its user base wants and actually give it to them. But competition is good for all of us. So I do hope Canon and others can actually come up with a camera priced under $10K that is not totally crippled and can compete with RED.
 
he he "totally crippled camera"

"crippled" is so much used with Canon, Nikon and others nowadays across all forums, blogs and discussions :D
 
There really isn't a lot of magic in RED, just preparing the ingredients differently:

1) Oversampled sensor has a higher MTF at higher spatial frequencies that non-oversampled cameras.

2) Saving the image as RAW. Not really magic with a Bayer sensor (well, a little with an 8k sensor). Regular AVCHD, HDV, and XDCAM EX save 12-bits per pixel, the same as RED. RED is just saving 4 pixels for each one in a 1080p image.

3) Better algorithms in demosaicing and down scaling. Both much discussed topics in the still photography world. Video cameras couldn't really play well because they needed to process 24 or 30 or 60 frames per second with a weak processor and real time constaints. RED saved the RAW image so they get to process it on a big computer with all the time in the world (more or less).

4) They decided to compress the RAW output and used wavelet compression.

All of these things already exist and are done by one or more competitors. The Canon 5DM2 is probably viewed as more as threat in the industry than the RED, Scarlet or any other color.
 
DavidNJ said:
There really isn't a lot of magic in RED, just preparing the ingredients differently:

1) Oversampled sensor has a higher MTF at higher spatial frequencies that non-oversampled cameras.

2) Saving the image as RAW. Not really magic with a Bayer sensor (well, a little with an 8k sensor). Regular AVCHD, HDV, and XDCAM EX save 12-bits per pixel, the same as RED. RED is just saving 4 pixels for each one in a 1080p image.

3) Better algorithms in demosaicing and down scaling. Both much discussed topics in the still photography world. Video cameras couldn't really play well because they needed to process 24 or 30 or 60 frames per second with a weak processor and real time constaints. RED saved the RAW image so they get to process it on a big computer with all the time in the world (more or less).

4) They decided to compress the RAW output and used wavelet compression.

All of these things already exist and are done by one or more competitors. The Canon 5DM2 is probably viewed as more as threat in the industry than the RED, Scarlet or any other color.
Click to expand...

That sounds like magic to me:thumbsup:
 
hawaj said:
I don't think that there is some magic in Red except one mysterium :)
Click to expand...
David makes good points as usual. To me, the sensor size is the Graal ('Holy Grail') where the other variables (such as codec -- important enough) can or not add to shine. Workarounds? Only who doesn't handle with them in a daily basis in filmmaking can say they are too much important.
 
DavidNJ said:
There really isn't a lot of magic in RED, just preparing the ingredients differently:

1) Oversampled sensor has a higher MTF at higher spatial frequencies that non-oversampled cameras.

2) Saving the image as RAW. Not really magic with a Bayer sensor (well, a little with an 8k sensor). Regular AVCHD, HDV, and XDCAM EX save 12-bits per pixel, the same as RED. RED is just saving 4 pixels for each one in a 1080p image.

3) Better algorithms in demosaicing and down scaling. Both much discussed topics in the still photography world. Video cameras couldn't really play well because they needed to process 24 or 30 or 60 frames per second with a weak processor and real time constaints. RED saved the RAW image so they get to process it on a big computer with all the time in the world (more or less).

4) They decided to compress the RAW output and used wavelet compression.

All of these things already exist and are done by one or more competitors. The Canon 5DM2 is probably viewed as more as threat in the industry than the RED, Scarlet or any other color.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the definition of innovation? Taking something used by another industry or for another purpose, and adapting it to improve the quality and performance of your product?

I think RED gains a lot of fans because their is almost no reason why nobody else is doing what their doing. It's just frustrating as a consumer to be held back, using "crippled" equipment when the technology is there, but no one will put it together in a nice package. Hence the exact reason Jim Jannard started the RED company.

This is the same reason I haven't bought a new DSLR, there is no reason that we shouldn't be able to buy a Full Frame sensor body for less than $1500. Buying new lenses is another ridiculous feature too.

KO
 
knock out said:
Isn't that the definition of innovation? Taking something used by another industry or for another purpose, and adapting it to improve the quality and performance of your product?

I think RED gains a lot of fans because their is almost no reason why nobody else is doing what their doing. I
Click to expand...

Actually, the SI2k does nearly everything the RED does except being oversampled; the SI2k uses a 2k sensor. It is available as a complete camera or as a head unit that that sends RAW sensor outputs to a PC. The output is compressed either in the complete camera or in the PC with wavelets in Cineform. It has the complete demosaicing in post including the application of different LUTs.

The use of ethernet is a cool trick made possible because it was a 2k sensor instead of a 4k sensor; it had 1/4 the information to send.
 
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