Canon APS-C sized Video Camera

R

RichardVClark

Well-known member
!RUMOR ALERT!
canon is working on a pro video camera that has a 1x aps-c cmos sensor able to capture up to 120hz or full frames a sec. Fab specs show 12.1mp. The body will be similar to that of the xl h1 with an eos mount fully manual controls. Canon is working on 2 lenses for the system launch that have quick video af motors and be compatible with instant af like their current video line. One will be a wide starting at 16mm and the other will be a tele zoom starting at 70mm.

While i can’t directly comment on the dslr video modes being restricted, i believe they are lowering the options for this system to be launched sometime in 2010. Other specs on the firmware of the camera are: 720p 60,30 1080p, 24, 30 and 60. Ef and ef-s lens compatibility including teleconverters. Will not work with sigma as the mount communication protocol is somewhat changed, those lenses will have to be sent in for an updated firmware. Tamrons seem to be unaffected or at least not mentioned. The video format will be a flavor of mpeg 4 with a roof at 56mbits/sec. Work is being done on a video raw format that will be 12bit only, and will need a special io module separate from the default package.

While no pricing has been set, they target under 8k for the base system with the 16mm wide and 4k or more for the io module with uncompressed sdi out and usb 3.

Storage system will be based on the cfast spec! One slot only.

More info available as things progress.

Don’t expect eos vdslrs to get any better at recording exotic frame rates or get manual control.

Specs may change but i’ll keep you updated.
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From http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/03/new-video-camera-system/
 
Scarlet...I don't know about that. It's not raw and its still a flavor of mp4. W/o a pl mount (as Kholi said in another thread) its still not the Scarlet. Leap forward from their current line up? Yes. We need to wait and see. Also keep in mind that RED keeps everyone two steps behind.

All I know, if it's true, then it is a damn good time to be a filmmaker.
 
Now this is interesting...It will probably come with different flavours of H264 encoding... It is a Scarlet competitor, indeed- specially if it arrives soon and precedes the Scarlet...
 
So we can forget about any improved functionality for the 5DII, too much competition, and I don't think we'll see any more DSLRs with usable HD recording for the same reason.
This cam's fine for anyone who can afford it but at least £8000 for this? Forget it, Ill go with the GH1. Canon shot foot themselves in put words in correct order.
Dave
 
daveswan said:
So we can forget about any improved functionality for the 5DII, too much competition, and I don't think we'll see any more DSLRs with usable HD recording for the same reason.
This cam's fine for anyone who can afford it but at least £8000 for this? Forget it, Ill go with the GH1. Canon shot foot themselves in put words in correct order.
Dave
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This is exactly why I don't think this camera will actually exist. The R and D versus Payoff selling to a niche that wont' fork over 8K is just not worth it. There are too few people that would invest in this system.

The only ones I could see having it are the Guys that own Camera + 35mm Adapters + Decent Support Gear. They're the ones willing to shell out 8K+ for a good image. Everyone else thinks that they need to be given the holy grail for 1000.00 US or less.

There just isn't enough in this niche to produce a camcorder of this caliber. The only way I can see this working is if they literally shove it into an H1 body and still give you the regular H1 lenses. Sure, the sensor will be cropped, but those who want to use the larger area have the choice.

Why would you develop new electronic video-specific lenses, increase the supply of a niche specific item that isn't THAT in demand?

It'll be a good idea for a bit, then Scarlet FINALLy comes out (circa 2011 LOL) and REDCODE crushes it.
 
Well, Canon's just made dumb mistake after dumb mistake over the years. Anybody remember the 3D lens for the Canon XL1? According to the American Cinematographer article on it, the results with it were surprisingly really good, but Canon thought it was too much of a niche product (ie. expensive), so they scrapped it. Can you imagine that lens now on an XLH1 or XLH1s? Then the whole 24p thing with the XL2, then the XH-series and HV-series having funky 24p, and now this whole thing with the VDSLRs' frame rates is just getting ridiculous.

Even if Canon made such a camera, it's already dead in the water with the Scarlet, even if the Scarlet doesn't make it by summer, it could still make the fall and what difference would it make then? It's still the only 3K solution on the block and its at a killer price WITH REAL LENS OPTIONS!
 
I would prefer a 1080p24,60,120 APS-C sized XL-H1 that shoots 4:2:2 for 6k over a scarlet in most cases. I don't need 3k or 5k.
 
Nik Manning said:
I would prefer a 1080p24,60,120 APS-C sized XL-H1 that shoots 4:2:2 for 6k over a scarlet in most cases. I don't need 3k or 5k.
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At 8K, though? I couldn't justify getting a Canon over a Scarlet if they both cost the same.

I couldn't even consider it. LoL
 
Jack_Felis said:
Can you imagine that lens now on an XLH1 or XLH1s? Then the whole 24p thing with the XL2, then the XH-series and HV-series having funky 24p, and now this whole thing with the VDSLRs' frame rates is just getting ridiculous.
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What 24p issue with the XL2? It works perfectly for that camera. And what is it about 24F that are "funky"? It's exactly the same as 24p, better in some respect because you don't have to deal with pulldown. The XL1 was one of the most successful camera for event shooters at the time, and have you not noticed the boatload of XH-A1 that have been sold? I suspect you have not used ANY of the camera you mentioned.

Jack_Felis said:
Even if Canon made such a camera, it's already dead in the water with the Scarlet, even if the Scarlet doesn't make it by summer, it could still make the fall and what difference would it make then? It's still the only 3K solution on the block and its at a killer price WITH REAL LENS OPTIONS!
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What is up with all the hate? What if this rumor had been through Panasonic then what would people say? I'm really getting sick of people mentioning Scarlet like it's the Holy Grail. Btw, the comparable Scarlet camera for this one (if it was true) would cost $7K BODY ONLY. And by the time you're done dealing with lenses and other hardwares it's going to be close or over $10K. Really need to compare apples with apples here.
 
The scarlet will cost somewhere close to 18,000 when you get it rigged to shoot what you'd expect from a handheld camera. The canon at $8000 will be shootable out of the box for that price and it will be editable for a much lower cost than the scarlet RAW footage if you factor in the cost of new computer hardware. The Canon will be smokin. And the record times will be much better with the canon unless you're happy with 10 minute shooting. And the Canon is rumored to use the new faster compact flash does that mean a new module purchase for the RED. Keep opening your wallet for Jannard he's got that aspect locked.
 
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This is just silly. The processing power to do a real time full res debayer on a sensor THAT size simply doesn't exist at a price point anywhere near what you're talking about. The 5D II (and I own one) is a really, really neat camera, but the aliasing will _ not _ ever _ go _ away without a full resolution debayer process. And, footage with aliasing is not a professional solution. For those projects that need 35mm depth of field and simple workflow, I own and operate two Canon XH-A1's with Letus 35mm adapters and Zeiss ZF lenses. Would I replace them with "XL3's" maybe, but not if that aliasing crap still exists.

Look, the main reason RED requires all of that post processing after the shoot, is because they offer a full resolution debayer option in the software. To do a realtime conversion, you must only use the 1/8 or 1/4th resolution debayer on the RED footage. Otherwise, the full res debayer takes about 20x as long (on a single dual core processor). It's really hard to see how Canon could offer this absolutely critical feature as a real time to tape or CF card product. The current method used by Canon sacrifices image quality for speed.
 
thisiswells said:
The processing power to do a real time full res debayer on a sensor THAT size simply doesn't exist at a price point anywhere near what you're talking about.
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Any DSLR that records JPEGs must do an instantaneous full-resolution debayer. This is through ASICs (application-specific integrated circuits), circuits that are custom made to do one thing and one thing only. This is why, for example, an HMC150 can apply white balance and a dozen other image tweaks and then compress high-definition frames into MPEG-4 at 60 frames per second, while using less than 10 watts, while a dual-core PC, using much more than 10 watts total, compresses it much more slowly.
 
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combatentropy said:
Any DSLR that records JPEGs must do an instantaneous full-resolution debayer. This is through ASICs (application-specific integrated circuits), circuits that are custom made to do one thing and one thing only. This is why, for example, an HMC150 can apply white balance and a dozen other image tweaks and then compress high-definition frames into MPEG-4 at 60 frames per second, while using less than 10 watts, while a dual-core PC, using much more than 10 watts total, compresses it much more slowly.
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So, are you saying it is possible?

.... To readout 20 Million pixels from a CMOS chip, do a full resolution debayer process, using every single pixel on the CMOS chip, without pixel binning, then scale the resulting images, 30 frames a second, to a standard broadcast resolution, like 1080P? And, simululateously output that signal to a viewfinder on the camera, the HD-SDI port for display on a monitor, and to an MPEG-4 encoder and record the video on a CF card? Simultaneously?

That is what it would take to make a functional video camera, right? Being that I am more of a cameraman and not an engineer, clearly it is not for me to say what is and isn't possible with today's technology. I can only point out that, that the most capable video camera on the market today (RED ONE) does not even do what you're talking about... For some reason. And, my understanding is that reason is because it's not possible.
 
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I think this new Canon camera will trully be revolutionary. I'm usually not anyone that gets easily excited with rumors, but seeing what they are capable of with their sensor and excelent lenses, and having no upper market to protect for cameras, excluding, of course, their own 2/3 range of lenses, I believe they are going to press Sony and Panasonic to up their game...FAST.

While Scarlet S35 is my dream cam, if Canon comes up with a pro video camera that equals the 5d MarkII incredible low light, DOF and resolution, and do that out of the box for below 8k, I'm sold.

I expect, however, for announcements to happen only at the Annual Canon event, not at NAB. If I remember correctly, it should be around August, but Barry should know better the details..
 
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