Canon 5D MkII vs Other HDV cams?

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Dan_The_Man

Active member
Hi there,

I have just finished a shoot with the Canon 5D Mark II and was really impressed! The footage looks beautiful! The low light capabilities on that thing are amazing and you can get a really shallow depth of field.

So this has got me thinking, why spend £2500 on an XH A1 when you can get a 5D for the same price? I saw a comparison of between the 5D and the Sony EX1 and to me the 5D footage looked way better. An EX1 costs twice as much brand new!

I recently bought myself a Canon XH A1 which costs about the same amount as the 5D and after this shoot I feel like selling my XH A1 to buy a 5D. So what I need to discuss is the advantages and disadvantages of the 5D compared to the XH A1 and other HDV cameras. Maybe I should keep the XH, maybe I should buy the 5D or maybe I should save up a bit more cash for an EX1?

What are your experiences with the Canon 5D MkII and do you think this is the one to buy as an indie film maker? Let the discussion begin!

Dan
 
Dan_The_Man said:
So this has got me thinking, why spend £2500 on an XH A1 when you can get a 5D for the same price?
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How would you get sound with a 5D unless you go double system?

No 24p mode on the 5d.

Poor DSLR form factor.

The answer is that get the right camera for what you need it for. A lot of what the 5d can't do you can work around, but there are situations where the camera would be the wrong choice (i.e I wouldn't show up to shoot a wedding with a 5d).
 
I know that it would be the wrong camera to film events because it can only capture limited length clips.

As far as sound goes it doesn't seem such a big deal to have sound recorded on a seperate system. If you wan't really good sound on your film you will need a guy holding a boom anyway.

Is it a real nightmare to convert to 24p? Do you lose quality?

I don't understand what you mean by poor form factor.

I am thinking that having to record seperate sound and converting to 24p afterwards would be worth it for the amazing look of the camera, the low light capabilities and features similar to film such as the shallow DOF.
 
No-brainer here. Despite all already known cons, 5D MkII on all the way. Not even the audio will stop you since the ML firmware release at least. You won't look or want to go back.
 
Huy Vu said:
Poor DSLR form factor.
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I hear this a lot but personally I think it's a superior form factor once you configure a rig to balance it right and work out the monitoring issues. Flying any other cam with this kind of picture quality costs a lot more money due to the weight.

No 24p is the biggest issue but there are post workarounds apple shake being the best at the moment. Fast action 24p conversion is prone to some artifacts.

The zoom H4n is more versatile than a lot of HD camera's onboard sound, Hudson's hack makes onboard sound with a juicelink a viable option too.
 
Emanuel said:
No-brainer here. Despite all already known cons, 5D MkII on all the way. Not even the audio will stop you since the ML firmware release at least. You won't look or want to go back.
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ditto

squig said:
I hear this a lot but personally I think it's a superior form factor once you configure a rig to balance it right and work out the monitoring issues. Flying any other cam with this kind of picture quality costs a lot more money due to the weight.

No 24p is the biggest issue but there are post workarounds apple shake being the best at the moment. Fast action 24p conversion is prone to some artifacts.

The zoom H4n is more versatile than a lot of HD camera's onboard sound, Hudson's hack makes onboard sound with a juicelink a viable option too.
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and ditto. personally, i think the form factor is superior even without additional equipment. nice and covert. really handy for locations where you get the dreaded "hey you can't have that in here" with a traditional video camera. people seem to leave you alone when they think you're just taking stills.

add to that no bulky 35mm adapter setup, great low light performance shooting staight through good glass. no brainer for me too. i still do some events on the side, and i'm just renting the right camera for those jobs. meanwhile, i take my 5d with me freaking everywhere. i sold my hvx setup to buy the 5d package. i'm not sure what was better, that i don't have to deal with bs p2 prices anymore, or that i actually MADE money selling my hvx200a setup and buying the 5d setup. throw in shake for around $200 and you're good to go.
 
I just have to ask for what possible reason with film projectors being phased out in cinemas anyway, why one would want to shoot 24p?

I prefer higher master frame rates (progressive and 35mm sized of course) - they just look better.

With digital cinema projectors, you can have other frame rates (as you can with film projectors.. but I guess 24p stuck in most cases, economy of film, 24p being on the cusp of illusion of motion - not a big fan of it teetering on the edge in many cases).
 
I can say that the biggest 2 differences between the functionality of the A1 and 5D are focus and audio. Not necessarily audio in the camera, but synching audio with a recorded source. I have tried to synch with recording to an H2 and have a terrible time keeping it in synch. And with the very shallow DOF, I am also haveing a hard time with focus. I'm getting there though.
BIll
 
Do the disadvantages of the audio synching make this camera not worth buying for video? Surely the possible shallow depth of field is an advantage.

One feature of this camera that I really liked was the function that can give a temporary digital zoom to check your focus is bang on. The screen on this camera is amazing.
 
Huy Vu said:
How would you get sound with a 5D unless you go double system?

No 24p mode on the 5d.

Poor DSLR form factor.

The answer is that get the right camera for what you need it for. A lot of what the 5d can't do you can work around, but there are situations where the camera would be the wrong choice (i.e I wouldn't show up to shoot a wedding with a 5d).
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Every movie and TV show you've ever seen has double system sound.

Other than people like you and me, the audience doesn't care or know the difference between 24p and 30p. And the 5D Mark II's 30p doesn't look videoish.

Poor DSLR form factor means I'm able to get shots that you would never be able to get with a big bulky obvious video camera.

I agree that people should get the camera that fits their needs for that project.


Dan_The_Man said:
I know that it would be the wrong camera to film events because it can only capture limited length clips.

As far as sound goes it doesn't seem such a big deal to have sound recorded on a seperate system. If you wan't really good sound on your film you will need a guy holding a boom anyway.

Is it a real nightmare to convert to 24p? Do you lose quality?

I don't understand what you mean by poor form factor.

I am thinking that having to record seperate sound and converting to 24p afterwards would be worth it for the amazing look of the camera, the low light capabilities and features similar to film such as the shallow DOF.
Click to expand...
You can shoot events just fine. Check this one out http://vimeo.com/5787469
 
If you have 2 5Ds then the problem of limited video clip lengths doesn't matter because you can overlap the footage. You may have trouble filming a concert or something similar with just one 5D though.

It seems to me that the set backs with the 5D are not that major at all. Plus you get an amazing stills camera to continue your photography portfolio!

I think I'm going to buy one
 
You won't regret it. Don't forget about Hudson's magic lantern firmware. I haven't tried it yet, but I know one of the goals is to override the 4gig file limit, which bodes well for event shooting. I'm not positive but that may already be in the current release, which I believe is 0.6.1, or somewhere in there.
 
slimchrisp said:
You won't regret it. Don't forget about Hudson's magic lantern firmware. I haven't tried it yet, but I know one of the goals is to override the 4gig file limit, which bodes well for event shooting. I'm not positive but that may already be in the current release, which I believe is 0.6.1, or somewhere in there.
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I didn't know about that on the firmware hack, but the 4GB file limit has nothing to do with the camera. It has to do with the FAT32 file system, so unless the hack has an auto re-record or changes the entire file system to NTSF or something else, the 4GB limit will stand.
 
StormFactory said:
It has to do with the FAT32 file system, so unless the hack has an auto re-record or changes the entire file system to NTSF or something else, the 4GB limit will stand.
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that's true. i believe the goal was to start a new file recording automatically behind the scenes, kind of the way the hvx does. not change anything about card formatting. again, i haven't checked to see if this is implemented yet.
 
i switched around a few numbers by the way. the current version of magic lantern is 0.1.6. and it doesn't look like this feature is in there yet.
 
Are there any other differences that you can highlight between the 5D and other HDV cameras? Has anyone made the move to the 5D and regretted it?
 
My only regret is the learning curve and FPS issues

There is always a risk of missing shots with the camera (focus)

One does wonder whether the time is spent concentrating on that curve would be better spent finding interesting content, business development, time off, whatever

S
 
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