Canon 5D Mark 2 vs Ex1

C

Cinemano

Active member
Hello

Yes i know the EX1 is a better video camera. The canon 5D mark 2 isnt even one.
But has anyone compared them side by side ? I think the Canon's direct SLR lens use and full HD might be quite good.

Yes it has more compression, but surely its compensated by the fact it doesnt need those brevis or redrock adapters that diminish some of the definition and light?

So perhaps side by side they might be quite similar?

Anyone made comparisons in a link we can compare?
 
I think it's a very very relevant issue. We're all going for the film look, and both seem to do a pretty good job at it. The question is which one does it better. How should, I know don't have either of them, but I am considering getting one.
 
A. No we are NOT all going for a film look.

B. Neither looks like film

C. Both look good, but different.


Rent both, choose the one you like most. I have an EX1, it better suits my needs. Maybe that's not true for others.

These camera pissing contests are silly. You want a film look? Shoot film. You want really "film looking" video, buy a RED or rent a Viper/Dalsa/F35/Genesis.

By the time we get to sub $10k video cameras, it's really just video. Yes, you can put a 35mm adapter on them, yes, you can stabilize them. But it's a video camera. Just do good work and be done with it.
 
No, not apples and oranges. Both can do the same thing, the EX1 just needs a 35mm adapter is all. It all depends on what you are willing to give up by going with the 5D Mark II. Full manual control is out of the question for the most part but you can get "enough" manual control by doing certain things like buying manual lenses, usually Nikon in this case with an Nikon to EOS adapter, and looking into how to convert that 30p footage into 24p, assuming that matters to you anyway as some people simply don't care/understand about the difference.

If it were my money, I'd have a little bit of a hard time choosing to be honest because I like the sharpness and build of the EX1 but, at the same time, the 5D Mark II gives me true and uncompromised 35mm DOF with 1080p to boot. The 30p thing would probably end up being the dealbreaker because I've had to deal with converting footage time and time again with my HV20 (ie. to get the true 23.98 signal out of the 29.97 wrapper) and that has just messed me over more times than I would like to admit. Now, if Canon would add 24p to it, then there would be no question to go with the 5D Mark II. PMA is around the corner so, who knows, maybe someone else will beat them to the 1080p/24p Video DSLR game.
 
PerroneFord said:
Apples and oranges. Why bother?
Click to expand...

Perrone, while I'm a huge fan of yours, I don't think they are apples and oranges, more like Oranges and Limes.

Many people are using the EX1 as a "motion picture camera" not just as a video camera. The Mark2 is more of a "motion picture camera" than a video camera. So they are comparable. I think the Mark2 would be perfect if it just exported out to 50Mbps 4:2:2 Long-GOP that's why my eyes are now on the Mark2 with the Flash XLR; the EX1 with the Flash XLR ;and the HPX300 with a DOF Adapter.

I don't care at all about "videoing" events, weddings, nature. I care about "filming" people. So if the Mark2 can do that especially when coupled with something like the Flash XLR then that pair could be stronger to me than the EX1 plus SGBlade/Letus.
 
Ok,

No audio or sync, no 24p, what codec does it shoot again? No manual control, CMOS jellovision issues even worse than the EX1.

So remind me how this is going to helpful in film production? Yes, the Canon is a good start, but it's got some way to go. Trying to shoot a feature these days without even rudimentary time code is probably a non-starter for most. Which brings us to the EX1. Same problem with time code, but at LEAST I can record wild sound and sync that in post (which is exactly how I do it).

The EX1 also allows me to grab uncompressed HD if I want it, or choose a different codec to record with. Long GOP or intra-frame, as long as I am willing to spend the bucks.


Again, this debate could rage back and forth all day every day and the result would be exactly the same. NEITHER camera gives a filmmaker what they need to shoot a film. So you choose the one with the compromises you can most live with, and go from there.
 
Again with much respect Perrone, this is the type of info people need.

As for me, I've never used Timecode although it was available for me to use. You don't need timecode to shoot a movie. Timecode came AFTER people were shooting for years. Timecode just makes life easier. I used outside audio - I'd never use a camera to record sound because you need a box that was made for sound to get the best sound. I slate to link up sound - like old Hollywood did. :)

The problem I have with the Mark2 has more to do with:
Does the camera export the image out via HDMI?
How bad is the rolling shutter? 50% worse than the Ex1?
etc.

I'm not leaning there too much, but it's always good to explore all the options for micro/no-budget indies. The Mark2 has the best DOF and Bokeh of any camera under $10K. It's price tag of $3,500 also makes it extremely attractive to those shooting with HV20s and such now.

My eyes are debating more between the HPX300 and the EX1 but I always keep my eyes on everything, including Scarlet and RED.

But for others, I see how the info could be helpful.

As for film... my 2 cents. Film is DEAD people just don't know it yet. They keep reviving it. There's no since in falling in love with a dead medium. I personally like the look of digital. I don't believe in the "film look". What I'm personally looking for is the containment of lots of stops of light, great color reporduction, a large enough pixel / resolution count to put my ideas where I want, and a great image. So if I get that image through RED cool, if it comes from EX1-SGBlade cool.

I wish I was more technical because I could make the perfect camera for me and half of the indie users, sell it for $6K and make a killing. Each manufacturer knows how to do it, they just won't because they are holding on to old technologies to make profits. (And this does happen, I've worked in tech all my adult life and have seen people "hold things back")
 
In my opinion the Mark II is a photo camera that does video (decent looking video for sure). The ex1 is a real video camera. If you plan on shooting films, I dont know that number one, I would bring a Mark II on set to shoot a film and be taken seriously and two that its worth the codec, cmos, jello, and shooting in 30p. For your own personal films and shooting its great, but if you want it to make films just get an Ex1 and adapter or maybe wait for the hpx300 if you're a fan of p2 cards and not using the XxS :)
 
I think it is a very fine line

I dont like my EX1 look bare and dont like all the gizmology that is an adapter

I dont like my 5ds lack of control

If you have an assistant to lug the adapted EX1 around and enough time to set every shot on a heavy tripod EX1/Adapter is it

Low budget - keeping it simple ? 5d

A 5d on a posh tripod, with a set of lights, is better than a EX1 handheld no lights do you have the cash for the rest of the rig ?

Just cos it is a stills camera dont think it is cr*p - people need to make a big change in thier thought processes - the next generation of DSLRs could rock the whole industry

(all 'in my humble opinion')

S
 
If you have total control of the scene and the amount of time you have shooting, then I would go with the 5D. But if you're working with other people who are paying you for your time, I would go with the EX3/35mm adaptor.

You're going to have to work around the short comings of the 5D to get a great picture. This can be done, but it will take additional time (patience) and sometimes you don't have control over that. (peoples schedules, location schedules, what you're shooting, etc...)

With the EX3/35mm you can shoot everything that a normal video camera can shoot and it can have a film look (35mm adaptor, CINE4, 24fps) or look like video (no adaptor, STD1, 60i). As a result it can make you more money because it's more versitle.
 
hi Cinemano,

i own the EX-1 and the 5DmkII.

i already have a massive amount of Canon and Nikon gear so getting the camera was basically a natural evolution anyway. the video feature was a very big *plus* though.

i dont use a 35mm adaptor setup for the EX-1 so the 5DmkII made total sense.


WHAT I **LIKE*** ABOUT THE 5DmkII:

1-excellent shallow DOF with the best N & C glass i already own.

2-compactness and very lightweight...portability (lightweight does have its own problems though)

3-gorgeous color out of the camera and very simple to use the Canon picture styles.

4-better shooting in lower light conditions...then add the fast lens factor... 85mm 1.2 / 200mm 1.8 / 35mm 1.4...etc. truly beyond incredible the image that can be aquired if you are will to shoot real shallow....candle light shooting with ease.

5-as a photographer...the opportunity to capture **some mild complimentary** video at a photo event without having to haul the EX-1.

6-ability to be discreet while shootiing video. (not a biggie but will be handy at times)

7-no large and clunky rail system required for SHALLOW DOF even when using large lenses like a Canon 300mm 2.8 since large lenses already have their tripod mounting bracket.



WHAT I **DONT LIKE** ABOUT THE 5DmkII...(or at least... leaves a bit to be desired).

1-hand holding the plain 5DmkII.....is very awkard for me personally. really needs to be on a tripod or my Multirig (or similar) at minimum. im not speaking for all but for me.

2-occasional "banding" in darker smooth areas. i dont yet know why it sometimes show up. its not often but does happen and it can be severe enough to be concerned. could ruin important shots if not monitored carefully.

3-LCD is sharp but still *******inadequate******* **for me** by itself....unless shooting static object and i am locked down (tripod) where i can use zoom 10x feature with pre focus which then works fantastic until.........subject moves! for me a focusing AID is imperative when shooting shallow and moving subjects. i am currently using the Hoodloupe 3.0 attatched with rubber bands.

4-no 24p...although not a biggie but would be nice!

5-only holds one CF card...only a mild inconvience.

6-no *peaking* feature on the LCD (this would be a major help)!

7-no zoom controls for lenses (also since its all manual, while zooming you cant focus at the same time with the same hand). it isnt necessarily a problem but a consideration of what you have to do on a given shot which can make it a big limitation.

8-"BLACKS" tend to be "crushed" somewhat out of camera. (seems i have read somewhere that a workaround does exist. overall not much of a problem for me. with that said they are fairly retrievable in FCP.

9-i use the HoodLoupe 3.0 attached with rubber bands connected to the LCD which is a bit of a hassle to get on and off real quick when switching stabalizing rigs. not a biggie but when having to move fast...it is annoying. also the Hoodloupe will shift around a bit making it impossible to adjust when shooting sequence handleld. really need to get thick rubberbands and make sure the Loupe is in place before you click "record".

10-HDMI output is a bummer for me since i already have a rather expensive Nebtek 7" HD/SDI monitor which wont work.

11-lack of obvious *manual* support for Canon lenses.

12-**********does not appear to be as much resolution as the EX-1**********. honestly...quite noticable to me. with that said its still worth shooting for the great DOF. i try to be careful (and still learning when) to pick my moments as to when to use it.

13-still rolling shutter and as much as the EX-1 IMO in panning situations. in normal operation handheld the EX-1 will show almost no *wobble* but the 5DmkII will because it is so lightweight that it can jitter back and forth much more quickly and easier than the heavy EX-1. panning medium or quick shows basically the same skewing as the EX-1 from my experience. ive learned to live with CMOS though so not much of a factor.

14-audio is horrible of course, but still not a problem for me for most of what i am doing with it. will eventually add a real mic. at least there is *some* audio for reference and syncing later in post.


the images out of the 5DmkII can be jaw dropping when shooting shallow DOF....but...once you arent utilizing the dramatic DOF that is offered and start *stopping down* i feel that this is where there isnt enough reason to use it over the EX-1...UNLESS...you are going to utilize a lense (look) that you cant get with the stock EX-1 lens...ie very wide angle or fisheye or exteme long 400mm and above. once you take away the sweet DOF field much of the magic is totally gone for me and im not compelled to want to use it in the least. also, once your stopping down quite a bit you are obviously not in low light anymore either so no benefit of the 5D's low light capabilities over the EX-1 for me.

when i look at the EX-1 side by side with the 5DmkII the EX-1 it is always quite alarming to me how much more detail (or at least percieved information) the EX-1 shows. ive done no scientific test to validate this...but just looks obvious to my eyes.

so far there are *LOTS* of situations i wouldnt use the 5DmkII in. much of which is that *for me* it is hard to be as consistent as i need and want to be. FOCUSING is the absolute ****MAIN ISSUE**** for me. shooting vibey with as much shallow DOF as possible reaps at times *too much* OOF or near OOF shots. im still trying to get a handle on this. i always end up telling myself to....just STOP DOWN and quit being so greedy with the DOF! its so tempting to try and push to get as much as possible since i shoot very shallow with much of my photography. its not a fault of the 5DmkII but rather a fault of me coming to terms and being reasonable about the compromise. i am still trying to get my head around this.

a month or two ago i bought a NIKON to CANON adaptor ring allowing me to use all of my Nikon glass. thus allowing me to be able to *stop down* the aperture of choice. this is great of course but...i am feeling more and more that once i get to a point that my DOF isnt as dramatic (less shallow) then i question...why am i still shooting with the 5DmkII over the EX-1. so for me i am tending to only pick up the 5DmkII when i really want the very OBVIOUS SHALLOW DOF shot.

of all of the videos posted on the net from the 5DmkII probably no more than 3-5% have been professional looking.... if im judging by the camera operators technique and execution. i am sick of seeing shooters constantly ****SEARCHING FOR FOCUS****...rocking back and forth trying to find it. it gets old fast. sure we can call it *art* to see the *racking* and it can be *artful* but much of the time its just really a lame excuse for not having better technique. i try to be honest with myself that even though a shot can be real close to being executed properly with the focus point being NAILED....but in reality if it *** just.......missed the mark*** by enough...then....it should be nothing more than trash bound unless the loose "racking sloppiness" is intended.. on a real shoot its important that the **required footage is aquired**....this is where the 5DmkII becomes a large *RISK* consideration for me at this point. i admit to myself that my skills are short of some of the studs that can pull it off. i am working on it though.

one of the most professional and well executed videos i have seen to date from the 5DmkII is the one where the guys are in the helicoptor showing the snow covered mountains plus some indoors shots on some sort of a documentary (sorry i dont have the link...but is is farily recent). this looked fantastic to me but....honestly i am asking myself...why not just use the EX-1 or normal video camera since most of the shots lacked *obvious shallow DOF*? there were a few shots that were done shallow but probably less that 5-10% percievable to me. now, with that said, is it wrong that they did it with the 5DmkII...and to me...NO it is not. it does illustrate that it is fully capable of doing a professional job. for me though...at this point....i would much rather use my EX-1 since it operates and feels more logical, fluid and user friendly.

for me...the 5DmkII is for the ECCENTRIC shallow DOF shots. i suppose exactly what the 35mm adaptor guys use that rig for.

my #1...biggest frustration is....FOCUSING!!!!!!!!!! the Hoodloupe is as good as it gets short of using a 7" monitor which i have yet to invest in another one of these things. a peaking feature would be extremely helpful on the 5DmkII's LCD. im not complaining that canon should have put it on on there but just stating things that i missing what is on the EX-1. i think Canon could put much more on this body but simply havent because of marketing strategies. i dont have any problems with that. things will probably show up in later models.

i think that the 5DmkII as a tool is a revolution in a few eccentric ways and fully worthy of respect which i am happy to give to it. although it lacks much of the features we would expect on a video camera (which it of course is NOT).....it cant be denied what it can do exceptionally which is deliver **jaw dropping shallow DOF **, striking color OOC and ***exceptional low light*** images in a lightweight and farily inexpensive body.

finally in conclusion (yeah finally)...i dont get why in general there are always some people (earlier in this thread) who respond so cynically and defensive about this camera when it comes up in a comparitive fashion against an able camera like the EX-1 or any other video camera for that matter. the 5DmkII is definitely a contender in its own right. for me personally it would fall short if it were only my ***one main camera***, but it is for sure a fabulous "ACCENT" to my EX-1 and i think they both compliment each other in a very interesting way...sort of like ***opposites attract***.

david
www.davidprobst.com

p.s. i use the words "me" and "my" so i dont imply that just because i think or feel a certain way in my comments that i think everyone else should agree or or feel the same. i hope this is helpful to those interested in how these two cameras can co-exist together.
 
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