Canon 5d and RED ONE shot side by side

StormFactory,

Eric Papa didn't take in consideration your typo mention in anything other than as a direct reference to his comparison with the RED ONE.

Yet about resolution and the 5D Mark II in movie mode, using every pixel on every third row, sampling only one out of 3 pixels (horizontal not vertical), the sensor resolution drops to 1/3rd. Being the actual 5D Mark II full resolution in movie mode (before downsizing to 1920x1080) 5.9MP instead.

Eric Papa said:
I'm about to get a 5DMKIIn, I wouldn't be supprised if it looks better than the red 1. and thats a 70-200 2.8 L in the photo
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I wouldn't be suprised either, once there is more than resolution for a certain kind of balance comprehending different factors where a full frame 35mm sensor size will perform a relevant role, besides as it already happens with the RED ONE S35mm (smaller) sensor sized.
 
Sorry didn't mean to add the 'n' on there, thats a older camera I have.

Emanuel,

I'm referring to "Looking Better" only. I'm well aware of the technical specs - but as you can appreciate, I don't base my opinions on tech specs. It depends who is using the camera as to what the results look like.

You mentioned downsampling from 21 megapixel like its a bad thing...

and its not just about the sensor either. Canon L lenses are the professionals choice in most all circumstances. And now, zeiss is bringing new lens(s) to the table too for the EOS - nice!

I have a fully loaded HVX with redrock here with great canon L lenses. Its real silly to me that theres this "huge gap" of plastic components between my photography lens and camera sensor. The 5D eliminates that, and thats what we really want, direct lens mounting.

My kodak V1073 shoots 720p video. (Bought this cam for $75 at a closing circuit city.) It samples the video from a 10 megapixel sensor and it is "more than sharp enough". The color is "so so" but detail is very high for a tiny pocket camera.

I was an early adopter of the HV20 HDV cam almost 2 years ago. When I told people we were shooting a project with 2 HVX cameras and 1 HV20 they thought it was a bad idea. Turns out, when the project was burned to Blu-ray, you could clearly see the HV20 out performed the HVX in terms of resolution, low light, and even the color was great too after CC!

My point is that technology is maxxing out with this high res digital video. At this point, most issues have been addressed, and the newer product is usually better. By the time i get a new red camera, my pen or watch will likely shoot 2K video
 
DVXguy,

Whose decision was it to also film the music video with a 5D MarkII? Frank does some great music videos so I think it says a lot for the Mark II if you guys are wanting to try it out for this.
 
Eric Papa said:
Sorry didn't mean to add the 'n' on there, thats a older camera I have.

Emanuel,

I'm referring to "Looking Better" only. I'm well aware of the technical specs - but as you can appreciate, I don't base my opinions on tech specs. It depends who is using the camera as to what the results look like.

You mentioned downsampling from 21 megapixel like its a bad thing...

and its not just about the sensor either. Canon L lenses are the professionals choice in most all circumstances. And now, zeiss is bringing new lens(s) to the table too for the EOS - nice!

I have a fully loaded HVX with redrock here with great canon L lenses. Its real silly to me that theres this "huge gap" of plastic components between my photography lens and camera sensor. The 5D eliminates that, and thats what we really want, direct lens mounting.

My kodak V1073 shoots 720p video. (Bought this cam for $75 at a closing circuit city.) It samples the video from a 10 megapixel sensor and it is "more than sharp enough". The color is "so so" but detail is very high for a tiny pocket camera.

I was an early adopter of the HV20 HDV cam almost 2 years ago. When I told people we were shooting a project with 2 HVX cameras and 1 HV20 they thought it was a bad idea. Turns out, when the project was burned to Blu-ray, you could clearly see the HV20 out performed the HVX in terms of resolution, low light, and even the color was great too after CC!

My point is that technology is maxxing out with this high res digital video. At this point, most issues have been addressed, and the newer product is usually better. By the time i get a new red camera, my pen or watch will likely shoot 2K video
Click to expand...
Same general idea over here. I salute your open mind far away from a substantive geek side, that is, lack of any substantive reason for a healthy attitude towards the essence of the meaning of the word technology. :laugh: Rare over these or such boards. :thumbsup:

However, you've also mentioned something without a proper objectivity, neither technological well-thought which needs your care. :-) You can't deny the crucial contribution of simple things, or not so much, such as processing power (read, hardware), maths (read, compression rates/schemes, REDCODE for instance) by software application or both efforts. The bitrate, for example, enters somewhere over the rainbow. And last but not least, physics. The case of the importance of a sensor size for achieving DOF or in terms of light sensitivity, another occurrence.

Apart this and 'cause of this, this camera is indeed a milestone, such as the RED ONE has been so far. Your pen or watch won't provide the same 2K, count on it. Your further $999 FF35mm camera or your L class lenses in the meantime with the technology already available nowadays for a fraction of the industry's standards? No doubt ;-)
 
Eric Papa said:
I was an early adopter of the HV20 HDV cam almost 2 years ago. When I told people we were shooting a project with 2 HVX cameras and 1 HV20 they thought it was a bad idea. Turns out, when the project was burned to Blu-ray, you could clearly see the HV20 out performed the HVX in terms of resolution, low light, and even the color was great too after CC!
Click to expand...
PS -- Same finding from day one.


HV20 is a way further than the HVX200. Perhaps 'cause of that, I'd rather buy the consumer :huh: capture device instead and anyways. Even for a 35mm blow-up exhibition if other choices I would not have. :)
 
Yeah I definitely agree!

Also, a good friend of mine who works at CDW has the 5D Mark II for a good price (Seemed really good from what I've seen other companies charging!) incase anyone else is looking for a re-seller.
 
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Eric Papa said:
Yeah I definitely agree!

Also, a good friend of mine who works at CDW has the 5D Mark II for a good price (Seemed really good from what I've seen other companies charging!) incase anyone else is looking for a re-seller.
Click to expand...

How much is he selling them for???? :beer:
 
Eric Papa said:
I'm about to get a 5DMKIIn, I wouldn't be supprised if it looks better than the red 1. and thats a 70-200 2.8 L in the photo
Click to expand...

better than a RED ONE?... Maybe as good if you're on the web.

1080P for 1080P even, I still don't think the 5D can touch the RED. Only gets worse as the resolution gets higher.

That said, 5D footage pretty much murders Sub RED acquisition. =T And that's sad.
 
Emanuel said:
PS -- Same finding from day one.


HV20 is a way further than the HVX200. Perhaps 'cause of that, I'd rather buy the consumer :huh: capture device instead and anyways. Even for a 35mm blow-up exhibition if other choices I would not have. :)
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??????????

What do you mean? :dankk2:
 
I think kholi meant sad in regards to the much much higher costing prosumer cams not even coming close to the superb quality of the Mark ll. ....It basically says that camera manufacturers need to step up.

Edit:.....Hey....what the heck happend to my quote?....Ok now I'm talking to myself.
 
It was not Kholi. That quote is mine (but Kholi is not far away :laugh:).

ESTEBEVERDE said:
??????????

What do you mean? :dankk2:
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I mean, I was an enthusiastic HVX fan since the 1st hour but only before its release. I became a HV20 admirer from day one and after its release. ;-) And if I wouldn't have other choices, I would go between a XH-A1 and a HV40 (HF S100/10? Maybe yes, maybe not*). Or even with the Silicon Imaging/Cineform route. That is, there are the 5D Mark II and RED ONE. Scarlet (2/3" and especially the FF35) on the way. :-)

* http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1570038#post1570038

(see picture and link on the bottom of the post)
 
octopi_films said:
DVXguy,

Whose decision was it to also film the music video with a 5D MarkII? Frank does some great music videos so I think it says a lot for the Mark II if you guys are wanting to try it out for this.
Click to expand...


Frank actually directed 2nd unit in africa on 24 redemption. He said they used the camera out there with rails and a follow focus. He liked the quick setup and workflow. A friend of his had this camera and a ton of lenses, so he shipped it down to set. We just locked final edit so we'll have a link the moment the video premieres.
 
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there's one thing I have just come across and feel I should mention. as a person who is involved with about 100 music videos a year for the last 10 years I definitely see red taking over. However it should be noted that out of 10 people who use red maybe 2 or 3 do the post correctly to get the full benefits of the camera. people who dont fully understand this and try and shoot RED because they can rent the camera for really cheap, should probably shoot the canon 5d instead. I'm doing a music video next week and it's a small budget.. I'm going to rent a canon 5d, put it on rails with a follow focus.
 
DVXguy said:
Frank actually directed 2nd unit in africa on 24 redemption. He said they used the camera out there with rails and a follow focus. He liked the quick setup and workflow. A friend of his had this camera and a ton of lenses, so he shipped it down to set. We just locked final edit so we'll have a link the moment the video premieres.
Click to expand...

Whoa hold on now...who took it and how did they use the 5D on the set of 24 Redemption?
 
DVXguy said:
there's one thing I have just come across and feel I should mention. as a person who is involved with about 100 music videos a year for the last 10 years I definitely see red taking over. However it should be noted that out of 10 people who use red maybe 2 or 3 do the post correctly to get the full benefits of the camera. people who dont fully understand this and try and shoot RED because they can rent the camera for really cheap, should probably shoot the canon 5d instead. I'm doing a music video next week and it's a small budget.. I'm going to rent a canon 5d, put it on rails with a follow focus.
Click to expand...

These same people should still be shooting with an HVX200. I'm inclined to think even a 5D MKii is still to advanced a tool for 'em. Way too many people shooting RED (me included, honestly) that don't need to be or haven't the production qualities to match.

I know the camera pretty well, know how to get the most out of it in production and now in post... but I still am not at the skill level where I really should be using it. It's been an honor and I try not to take it for granted.
 
Kholi said:
These same people should still be shooting with an HVX200. I'm inclined to think even a 5D MKii is still to advanced a tool for 'em. Way too many people shooting RED (me included, honestly) that don't need to be or haven't the production qualities to match.

I know the camera pretty well, know how to get the most out of it in production and now in post... but I still am not at the skill level where I really should be using it. It's been an honor and I try not to take it for granted.
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Too damn modest.
 
DVXguy said:
Frank actually directed 2nd unit in africa on 24 redemption. He said they used the camera out there with rails and a follow focus. He liked the quick setup and workflow. A friend of his had this camera and a ton of lenses, so he shipped it down to set. We just locked final edit so we'll have a link the moment the video premieres.
Click to expand...
Hi Roy -

Are you saying that they shot some of "24: Redemption" using the 5D Mark II?

From what I understand, "24: Redemption" would have been a full season of 24 had it not been for the writer's strike. So that means they shot it well before the pre-production model was in Vincent Laforet's hands.

Can you confirm?
 
Hmmm...good point. 24 Redemption had to be filmed before the MarkII release or even before pre-production MarkIIs.
 
DVXguy said:
However it should be noted that out of 10 people who use red maybe 2 or 3 do the post correctly to get the full benefits of the camera. people who dont fully understand this and try and shoot RED because they can rent the camera for really cheap,
Click to expand...

Here, here, I don't understand why this is. My boy directed some stuff for Amalgam Digital and they rented the Red and after seeing the finished product, other than the greenscreen work, I didn't see anything so amazing that they couldn't have just used a hvx or hv20 with a mini 35 setup on. I had the raw (not Cam RAW/red raw) quicktimes and the shots were dull. Maybe it was the smoke machine or club interiors they used, but we just shot similar setups for WuTang at a club with the hvx and everything was so much more lively and vibrant. Aren't the correct techniques for using Red posted all over the web by now, if not on red.com? How r so many people still lost? I love the Red but would never play myself by not completely trying to freak it to tha max in an edit.
Currently in this thread because the former dj for Boogie Down Productions, D-Nice, has turned himself into an amazing photographer over the last 10 years and he uses the Sony A90 (I think), the Nikon D90 and the Canon 5D MK II...plus HV30 to film his web series True Hip Hop Stories and soon as I discovered it last month I was like "What is he shooting with???" The stuff is amazing... here http://blog.d-nice.com/ or here http://www.dnicegallery.com/
Thanx for the insight, I've been away for a few years, had heard dribbling murmurs over the last few months about dslr video cams, and one day just decided to google it to see if it was even possible while in the midst of looking at more diy 35mms. Of course like everyone else I said screw the mini35 if I can buy a cam for under 3k with a 35mm lense and a res higher than Red. Other than heat on the sensor (and I may buy two of these to allow cooling time) I don't see a drawback as I'm simply doing music videos and would love the fact that these cams would make me shoot like I was shooting film cams. I think everyone shoots way too much for 4 minute videos. If I had to pretend that I was changing out reels due to the heat issue, it would force discipline in my productions. Oh well, peace to all...
 
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