Canon 1D C irony with Atomos Ninja 2

marvinhello

marvinhello

Well-known member
So I tested Ninja 2 with 1D C today and found out an ironic fact that in 4K mode, HDMI trigger does not work. This means currently you can't follow Canon's suggested workflow which is to record 4K internally and have a proxy file output from HDMI for offline edit.

Atomos support told me the problem is on Canon's side, hopefully Canon will do something after NAB.
 
marvinhello said:
So I tested Ninja 2 with 1D C today and found out an ironic fact that in 4K mode, HDMI trigger does not work. This means currently you can't follow Canon's suggested workflow which is to record 4K internally and have a proxy file output from HDMI for offline edit.

Atomos support told me the problem is on Canon's side, hopefully Canon will do something after NAB.
Click to expand...


You should msg Shane Hurlbut. He just tweeted that he is putting people in touch directly with Canon for 1DC feedback
 
Obviously it would be better if it all worked, but it seems like going though a lot of "trouble" and media offloading/management for proxies?

Why not just create the files on the fly in your NLE?
 
AndreeOnline said:
Obviously it would be better if it all worked, but it seems like going though a lot of "trouble" and media offloading/management for proxies?

Why not just create the files on the fly in your NLE?
Click to expand...

I got a question for the proxies. If you record HDMI from 4K mode (if you can), will you be able to "link" the original 4K clips to the 1920x1080 HDMI after you cut and edit the proxies? How do you normally do that?

Some people will convert the 4K first to 2K ProRes first (using Streamclip), and edit the 2K, and then link the 4K version back to the edited 2K proxies. If so, will the final clip be still in 4K, or will it be down-scaled a full HD version? I have done some 4K shooting on 1DC, my Premiere Pro CS6 and Apple QuickTime Pro can play back the clips; and I can also directly edit in my Premiere but not as smooth as other codecs or resolutions. I have downloaded the Streamclip but since I am using the Windows, the Streamclip does not have an option as in Mac for me to transcode.

Since there is no ProRes codec for Windows yet; I am trying to figure out some other ways to do the above. Can anyone give me some advice please?

As for the Ninjia thing, I think Atomos also needs to do some upgrade too if it does not record HDMI at all. People use monitors on 1DC using HDMI output such as TVLogic, so I really don't know if it's all Canon's issue. It seems that it should work. I have a Samurai from Atomos and recently bought its HDMI to HD-SDI converter but I haven't tried it yet to see if it works with IDC. I will probably try it tonight.

Can anyone please give me some type answer as to the proxies issue above?
 
charlesqian said:
I got a question for the proxies. If you record HDMI from 4K mode (if you can), will you be able to "link" the original 4K clips to the 1920x1080 HDMI after you cut and edit the proxies? How do you normally do that?

Some people will convert the 4K first to 2K ProRes first (using Streamclip), and edit the 2K, and then link the 4K version back to the edited 2K proxies. If so, will the final clip be still in 4K, or will it be down-scaled a full HD version? I have done some 4K shooting on 1DC, my Premiere Pro CS6 and Apple QuickTime Pro can play back the clips; and I can also directly edit in my Premiere but not as smooth as other codecs or resolutions. I have downloaded the Streamclip but since I am using the Windows, the Streamclip does not have an option as in Mac for me to transcode.

Since there is no ProRes codec for Windows yet; I am trying to figure out some other ways to do the above. Can anyone give me some advice please?

As for the Ninjia thing, I think Atomos also needs to do some upgrade too if it does not record HDMI at all. People use monitors on 1DC using HDMI output such as TVLogic, so I really don't know if it's all Canon's issue. It seems that it should work. I have a Samurai from Atomos and recently bought its HDMI to HD-SDI converter but I haven't tried it yet to see if it works with IDC. I will probably try it tonight.

Can anyone please give me some type answer as to the proxies issue above?
Click to expand...

Hi, firstly to answer your question, yes you can link to the original 4K because they share the same timecode when you record them.

The current problem is, when 1D C is set to 4K mode, the HDMI trigger won't work, that means when you press record on the camera, the external recorder won't respond to that, so the recording can't be triggered simultaneously. This will make offline edit difficult.

You can directly edit the 4K clip if you have a powerful machine, or transcode to prores (mac) or dnxhd (PC), Cineform is a good choice too (you need to do this via Adobe Media Encoder, since Cineform studio doesn't support 1D C 4K file type)
 
charlesqian said:
I got a question for the proxies.
Click to expand...

I'm Mac-based, sorry.

I find the MacBook Pro retina to be an excellent partner for the 1Dc. I do one conversion to 4k ProRes and then everything is smooth for basic editing, even in 4k.

And the beauty of it is in the 2880x1800 screen too of course.

In FCPX you can have the proxies created for you automatically on import if you choose to go that route. Not saying that you should switch to Mac, just giving some general information if anyone else has the same question.

I'm sure you'll get more help from people actually working with PCs.
 
marvinhello said:
Hi, firstly to answer your question, yes you can link to the original 4K because they share the same timecode when you record them.

The current problem is, when 1D C is set to 4K mode, the HDMI trigger won't work, that means when you press record on the camera, the external recorder won't respond to that, so the recording can't be triggered simultaneously. This will make offline edit difficult.

You can directly edit the 4K clip if you have a powerful machine, or transcode to prores (mac) or dnxhd (PC), Cineform is a good choice too (you need to do this via Adobe Media Encoder, since Cineform studio doesn't support 1D C 4K file type)
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for your help. I am using Windows, so ProRes is currently impossible. Based on your advice above, if I want to use Adobe Media Encoder to transcode 1DC's 4K clips to dnxhd, I will have to download the codec from Avid website first. Is that correct? If I download the dnxhd codec, will Adobe Media Encoder be able to find it automatically, or do I have to put the codec file in some designated folder, directory so that Adobe Media Encoder can recognize and use it? Thank you.
 
AndreeOnline said:
I'm Mac-based, sorry.

I find the MacBook Pro retina to be an excellent partner for the 1Dc. I do one conversion to 4k ProRes and then everything is smooth for basic editing, even in 4k.

And the beauty of it is in the 2880x1800 screen too of course.

In FCPX you can have the proxies created for you automatically on import if you choose to go that route. Not saying that you should switch to Mac, just giving some general information if anyone else has the same question.

I'm sure you'll get more help from people actually working with PCs.
Click to expand...

Ya, I know Mac Pro Retina is good. But I am using Adobe Premiere Pro, it seems that laptop or most of Apple's laptops don't come with the Cuba video card that can play MPE (Mercury Playback Engine), which shows real time effects etc not just in Premiere but also in After Effects, Photoshops etc..
 
charlesqian said:
Ya, I know Mac Pro Retina is good. But I am using Adobe Premiere Pro, it seems that laptop or most of Apple's laptops don't come with the Cuba video card that can play MPE (Mercury Playback Engine), which shows real time effects etc not just in Premiere but also in After Effects, Photoshops etc..
Click to expand...

The 15" MacBook Pros Retina comes with a dedicated graphics card: the NVIDIA GT 650M with 1GB RAM and that supports CUDA (which is NVIDIAs parallel processing platform).

Both the Creative Suite apps as well as DaVinci Resolve are accelerated on the MacBook Pro.

Cheers!
 
AndreeOnline said:
The 15" MacBook Pros Retina comes with a dedicated graphics card: the NVIDIA GT 650M with 1GB RAM and that supports CUDA (which is NVIDIAs parallel processing platform).

Both the Creative Suite apps as well as DaVinci Resolve are accelerated on the MacBook Pro.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Ok, great! I thought I researched this. But the GT 650M should be 2GB RAM. Is that correct? Thank you.
 
charlesqian said:
Ok, great! I thought I researched this. But the GT 650M should be 2GB RAM. Is that correct? Thank you.
Click to expand...

Maybe that's the max supported amount from NVIDIA? The MPBr comes with 1GB, just like I wrote.

While more memory might be good for games or real time performance in 3D applications, 1GB is no render limitation for our needs here.
 
AndreeOnline said:
Maybe that's the max supported amount from NVIDIA? The MPBr comes with 1GB, just like I wrote.

While more memory might be good for games or real time performance in 3D applications, 1GB is no render limitation for our needs here.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's an Apple thing, and they just decided to put 1GB RAM into this laptop. My laptop with Windows also comes with the same video/graphic card as yours but with 2GB RAM, which I thought is standard. I also learned that in video processing video card's RAM is more critical than the CPU RAM in the computer. It's more related to editing than rendering, I think. But I have to thank you for your comments and share your experience with me on your Mac retina.
 
charlesqian said:
... I also learned that in video processing video card's RAM is more critical than the CPU RAM in the computer. It's more related to editing than rendering, I think. But I have to thank you for your comments and share your experience with me on your Mac retina.
Click to expand...

You're welcome.

And check your sources for video RAM usage when doing video editing. Lot's of video RAM is good when you need to store large amounts of textures or if you do modeling with lots of polygons in a real time 3D environment.

For video editing usage you basically want to use the GPU for parallel computations, in order to calculate effects and color changes on the fly. And maybe scaling depending on app support. But that has nothing to do with on board RAM.
 
marvinhello said:
So I tested Ninja 2 with 1D C today and found out an ironic fact that in 4K mode, HDMI trigger does not work. This means currently you can't follow Canon's suggested workflow which is to record 4K internally and have a proxy file output from HDMI for offline edit.

Atomos support told me the problem is on Canon's side, hopefully Canon will do something after NAB.
Click to expand...

Can you trigger the HDMI output in other modes such as Super 35mm?
 
marvinhello said:
yeah, everything works fine now, seems to be some glitches in the settings.
Click to expand...

Hi Marvin, so now you can output HDMI even shooting at 4K, is that correct? Can you please tell us the "glitches in the settings" so that we can avoid them. I had a Samurai and a HDMI to SDI converter from Atomos. I haven't tried the HDMI output yet so I would really like to know. I was reading the manual just now and it says when shooting 4K and outputting HDMI to an external recording device, it will only output 60i? Please let us know anything tricky. Thank you.
 
charlesqian said:
Hi Marvin, so now you can output HDMI even shooting at 4K, is that correct? Can you please tell us the "glitches in the settings" so that we can avoid them. I had a Samurai and a HDMI to SDI converter from Atomos. I haven't tried the HDMI output yet so I would really like to know. I was reading the manual just now and it says when shooting 4K and outputting HDMI to an external recording device, it will only output 60i? Please let us know anything tricky. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Yes the HDMI constantly output signal not matter what mode you are in.

If you tap on the Ninja screen where it says 1080 60i or what ever, it will enable a pulldown so you get 24p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top