FS7: Canon 18-80 on FS7

Joshua Milligan

Joshua Milligan

Well-known member
Hey guys. I picked up a Canon 18-80 T4.4 today and to my surprise, the servo on the FS7 actually controls the lens just like it would a native Sony lens. Both the FS7 handgrip and the top handle's servo works. Very neat trick.

The current Metabones firmware allows for the iris data to be correct and for you to control the iris though the FS7 if you wish, just like with any other Canon L lens.

The handgrip on the Canon 18-80 works great and to me is actually more comfortable for handheld shooting on the FS7 than using the FS7's handgrip, so I removed the handgrip and am just using the lens and its grip. Believe it or not, autofocus actually isn't bad and seems to be accurate. The addition of IS is amazing for handheld work and the step-less aperture ring is really useful. I also love its parfocal design.

As of right now, the only thing I can't get to work on the lens itself is the two buttons on the handgrip (start/stop and push auto focus, not the servo which works great). If Metabones can get those two to work, then holy smokes, it'll dang near be a native lens. Oh, and auto iris isn't working as of now on the FS7 with this lens, but Metabones emailed me today and made it seem as if they were working on those items.

This lens is truly amazing and the fact that it works so well with the FS7 is fantastic. It's unbelievable to me that the servos on the FS7 can control this Canon lens. If they can get the buttons to work (they actually do work on my A7RII already), then this lens will be hard to beat. Just thought I would share my experience today for those who may be interested in this lens over Sony's offerings.
 
For the auto iris (or Push AI, which I tend to use much more often), the Metabones adapter must be in Advanced mode. In green mode it simply is inactive.

Piotr
 
And make certain you are at the most current firmware update for your Metabones.

But as Piotr pointed out, CineEI is only manual exposure.
 
Ahhhh, thanks my friends. That's why I love DVXUser. I had no idea auto exposure didn't apply to Cine EI mode. I just checked and you're right, when in Custom mode the auto exposure works perfectly. I don't think I would ever use auto exposure anyways (at least I never have in 6 years of filming), so it was more just seeing if everything worked with this lens on the FS7.

So, now that I know that works, I guess that means the only thing left for Metabones to figure out is a way to get the buttons on the lens's grip to work as custom buttons on the FS7. If they can do that, then this lens will seriously work like a native lens on this camera. That's incredible.
 
Hey Ben. I went with the Canon for a few reasons. First and foremost, it was a better investment for me since it's EF mount. For me, this is important because I can use it on all my Sony cameras plus any other camera system I want to use in the future. So whether I want to use RED, Blackmagic, Panasonic, Sony or Canon, I can take comfort in knowing I'm not stuck into one system. For this reason, all but one of my lenses is EF mount.

The second reason is that even though it's EF mount, it actually almost works natively. Auto iris works, autofocus is accurate (but it is slow), the servos from the camera control the lens and the metadata is accurate. To top it off, I use the Metabones CINE line of adapters and have mine supported into the body, so there's no need for lens support. Using the Sony 18-110 on the FS7 MK 1, I would likely need to have the lens supported since the camera mount isn't the strongest. The Canon 18-80 is also smaller and lighter than the Sony and has an adjustable back focus.

Next was the image quality. It's classic Canon and looks better than their L line and more like their Cine line which is great. The Sony isn't bad, but it's doesn't produce quite the same image quality in my opinion. Plus, I love the way Canon lenses flare.

Then you have to factor in that it can have its own servo grip for just $500 more. That grip is super comfortable and to me feels more natural supporting the camera than Sony's FS7 handgrip does. Plus, that grip with the lens can be used on any camera, even the A7RII or A7SII. The grip's buttons even work on the little mirrorless cams.

I have not had good luck with IS in Sony lenses. Most of them for video either don't do much or do way too much. Most Canon lenses come with three IS options and work way better than Sony's. Also, the Canon 18-80 is truly parfocal whereas Sony's 18-110 is electronically parfocal. I'd rather rely on the one that does it mechanically than electronically. It also shows less breathing than the Sony.

Finally, when I shoot, I don't want to be taking off adapters. Since I'm shooting all Canon lenses (my only Sony lens is the Batis 25 and I use it on my A7RII for gimbal work), I don't want to have to take the time in the field to take off the adapter support and remove the adapter just to use one native lens. To me, I want that adapter to stay mounted on the camera and basically be part of the camera, only having to change lenses and nothing else.

So, with all the upsides of this lens, it was a no brainer to me. The Sony lens looks nice and it does have a better range, plus it is native. However, it can only ever be used on Sony E mount cameras and in my opinion just isn't quite as good as the Canon. The only thing you lose on the Canon is range and the buttons on the grip aren't currently working with the FS7, but that's hopefully going to be fixed soon.
 
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^ Agreed - nice post Joshua for those of us considering / weighing options. One quick question...in regards to "...Metabones CINE line of adapters and have mine supported into the body, so there's no need for lens support."
How is your cine adapter supported into the body of the FS7 I ?
 
markfpv said:
^ Agreed - nice post Joshua for those of us considering / weighing options. One quick question...in regards to "...Metabones CINE line of adapters and have mine supported into the body, so there's no need for lens support."
How is your cine adapter supported into the body of the FS7 I ?
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My adapters (and speed boosters) are supported on the FS7 with the Wooden Camera Unified Baseplate Dovetail. I put a link to that below. For me, I like ARCA Swiss mounts because I can easily use them with all of my cameras on all of my tripods, sliders, gimbal, jib, etc. So, with Wooden Camera's dovetail, it's basically an ARCA Swiss plate that has a hole in it with a thumbscrew. That hole takes a Wooden Camera Unified Lens Adapter Support (also linked below) and mounts directly into the Metabones adapter. This means that Metabones adapters (both CINE and standard) can be supported by the camera's ARCA Swiss baseplate and can be used with any ARCA receiver. This makes the camera really small and lightweight and allows the pressure of a heavy lens to be on the lens mount/adapter and not the camera's mount. That's perfect for using heavy lenses like a 70-200 2.8 or a 100-400 4.5-5.6. You can even get their Unified Baseplate if you want to easily add rods without needing a big rig (also linked below). I have one of those too. I put below some pictures from online to show what everything looks like.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...222600_unified_baseplate_camera_dovetail.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...a_wc_227900_unified_lens_adapter_support.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co...4C4lruoS4aAsHYEALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=1248730


wooden_camera_wc_222700_unified_baseplate_camera_dovetail_1248735.jpg

wooden_camera_wc_227900_unified_lens_adapter_support_1248783.jpg

227900-5.jpg

wooden-camera-Unified-Baseplate-222100_1280x1280.jpg
 
OP, don't think I'm being pedantic, but... The camera is letting you control the servos on the lens. The camera does not have servos, the lens does.
 
I never quite understood this lens on Super35 camera as it optically turns it approximately into a 2/3" ENG camera DOF-wise. But I guess Super35 DOF is not always needed and I'm sure this lens has a very useful focal range.
 
broughtonfilm said:
I never quite understood this lens on Super35 camera as it optically turns it approximately into a 2/3" ENG camera DOF-wise. But I guess Super35 DOF is not always needed and I'm sure this lens has a very useful focal range.
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??? I don't see how you can draw this conclusion. It's literally just using your FS7 at f/4. How in the world does that equate to a 2/3" ENG DOF camera?
 
Joshua Milligan said:
??? I don't see how you can draw this conclusion. It's literally just using your FS7 at f/4. How in the world does that equate to a 2/3" ENG DOF camera?
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Difference between Super35 and 2/3" in terms of DOF is 2.5 - 3 stops. Most ENG lenses happen to be usually about 2.5-3 stops faster than this T4.4 lens. So a wide open ENG lens gives just as shallow DOF as this lens wide open for an equivalent field of view (not focal length). That's how.
 
Based on what you just said, I'm assuming you never shoot over 1.4 or 2.8 on your FS7? That's crazy. That's like saying you must shoot on a 5D MK III with your 50mm set at 1.2 because otherwise you're wasting the point of full frame. And perhaps your math checks out. I couldn't tell you. But I can say that I've worked with ENG cameras like that and they in no way have the same look that this lens at T4.4 gives you on the FS7.

I'm not trying to get in a heated argument with you, so please don't take it that way. It's just that I can't see how that's the same thing. One is a small chip camera that even at f/1.4 wouldn't have a shallow DOF and one is a Super 35 large sensor camera that at f/4 has a pretty shallow DOF. I can't imagine all FS7, FS5, F5 and C300 owners only shooting f/2.8 or less so for fear of looking like an ENG camera.
 
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Joshua Milligan said:
Based on what you just said, I'm assuming you never shoot over 1.4 or 2.8 on your FS7? That's crazy. That's like saying you must shoot on a 5D MK III with your 50mm set at 1.2 because otherwise you're wasting the point of full frame. And perhaps your math checks out. I couldn't tell you. But I can say that I've worked with ENG cameras like that and they in no way have the same look that this lens at T4.4 gives you on the FS7.
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I never said I only shoot at f/1.4 or f/2.8, of course I often shoot stopped down. This was not the point. Point is the 18-80mm lens gives exact same image DOF-wise as an 2/3" ENG camera. That's it. You can still use other faster lenses on your FS7 if you want DOF unachievable on ENG camera at given field of view.

Joshua Milligan said:
One is a small chip camera that even at f/1.4 wouldn't have a shallow DOF and one is a Super 35 large sensor camera that at f/4 has a pretty shallow DOF.
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Wrong. This shows that you simply don't understand it. It is a simple matter of physics. Here is a great DOF and Field Of View calculator, you can use it to to calculate equivalent FOV and DOF for different formats. I hope it opens your eyes: https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/depth-of-field-and-equivalent-lens-calculator/#{"c":[{"f":11,"av":"4","fl":50,"d":3048}],"m":0}
 
I understand plenty. You can give me 700 different ways to calculate this out, but if you go outside and shoot the two side by side, it's not the same. But enough of this. I'm literally boarding a flight to go to Mongolia for a doc shoot and won't have access to internet for two weeks. I see it one way and you see it another. I just feel that coming onto my thread and saying that you don't see the point to this lens because it gives it an ENG look was not necessary. You could've just left that to yourself and let this thread be about what it was supposed to be about: how the Canon 18-80 performs on the Sony FS7. But, just like so many others on forums like this, people have to change the subject to talk about why something is pointless. I just don't understand the need for that.
 
Joshua Milligan said:
I understand plenty. You can give me 700 different ways to calculate this out, but if you go outside and shoot the two side by side, it's not the same. But enough of this. I'm literally boarding a flight to go to Mongolia for a doc shoot and won't have access to internet for two weeks. I see it one way and you see it another. I just feel that coming onto my thread and saying that you don't see the point to this lens because it gives it an ENG look was not necessary. You could've just left that to yourself and let this thread be about what it was supposed to be about: how the Canon 18-80 performs on the Sony FS7. But, just like so many others on forums like this, people have to change the subject to talk about why something is pointless. I just don't understand the need for that.
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I never thought you'd get offended by "ENG look". It is not bad in my book, not at all!!!! I think you must be a young shooter, perhaps with DSLR background so ENG sounds like a grandpa reindeer pullover sweater to you. I also had no idea you had such strong sense of ownership of this thread.

Once again, I'm not discrediting the 18-80mm T4.4 lens completely. In fact, for a lot of my shooting this is what I'd use as I often DON'T need a DOF shallower than that achieved by a 2/3" ENG camera. All I meant was that it didn't make much sense if used as the main and only lens because at this point you may as well shoot with a 2/3" ENG camera. This is just in regards to DOF. There are other things FS7 offers which many ENG cameras do not.

Speaking of camera sensitivity, it's a similar story. An average ENG camera has a native ISO of 250 - 320. Let's say FS7 is 800-1000 ISO natively (I know Sony says 2000 but we all know it's not true). Now with this slow T4.4 lens your system is actually about as sensitive as an ENG camera.... Again, not the end of the world - for most of any shooting that's all you really need, I just wanted to put it in perspective.

I wish you a great shoot in Mongolia!!!
 
I would merely add - and maybe try to navigate this thread in a new direction - that I still find - as solely a camera owner - that I'm quite happy my Sony Fs7 offers so many of these options (and really the list grows as lenses grow). The ability to shoot ENG style footage with the right lens. Check. Shoot narrative or commercial with primes. Check. Use cheap still glass with speed booster as well. Check. Multiple codecs. Check... etc.
 
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