SJX
Veteran
But like I said I want to buy used. So no chance of company help exchange.
Can you pick the camera and lens ? Venice / DXL2 / Alexa 65 and lenses
- Thread starter John Brawley
- Start date
But like I said I want to buy used. So no chance of company help exchange.
NorBro
Major Contributor
You can still buy used from businesses that accept returns (if there's a problem).
Or from places like Adorama who offer a 90-day warranty.
You know that if you're buying from eBay, you can't have your URSA and eat it too.
Back in the days of CDNG, it was common to ask sellers for a slightly underexposed frame from Blackmagic cameras so you could lift it in post and see how much FPN was there (if any).
Or from places like Adorama who offer a 90-day warranty.
You know that if you're buying from eBay, you can't have your URSA and eat it too.
Back in the days of CDNG, it was common to ask sellers for a slightly underexposed frame from Blackmagic cameras so you could lift it in post and see how much FPN was there (if any).
John Brawley
Well-known member
Used is tough.
BMD service usually do the right thing despite the bad press so if you’re worried then you can usually get any issues taken care of.
Having some back channel info sometimes I’m amazed at what damage people try and claim as warranty repairs who then go out and complain loudly in forums like this when they don’t get their way.
BMD won’t help much if you’re not the first owner and it’s out of warranty. They are starting to do more paid repairs though.
JB
John Brawley
Well-known member
Fair enough.
It’s hard because I can understand why you would want to hold onto a camera you really like. If it was me, I’d keep trying to use it, but it’s also a case of diminishing returns as well.
You mentioned two things in your initial post around bad rep. FPN and not being good in low light. I showed you a large range of examples there with both those cases where it should show up. I feel like my previous examples do the talking.
I could say the same thing about RED and FPN. Or the OLPF filter bounce when you have a lens flare. Or black hole sun on Alexa.
Every camera has imaging faults if you know how to find them. I can make FPN show on an Ursa. They all will do it eventually.
Some can be worse than others for sure, but if you were buying new, there would generally not be an issue to have it addressed. Your issue is buying second hand....
Only you can make that choice and decide if the risk is worth it to you. I presume as well you’ve also considered workflow ? Would you be shooting BRAW ? Resolves NR is really good these days as well.
Well I philosophically don’t change from iso 800 and so maybe that’s why I don’t ever see FPN. It also is generally the best way to expose this camera for maximum dr. I have seen some other users post great examples to 3200 and I myself have ‘saved’ some shots in post that have been lifted to 3200iso. But it’s not like I’d want to rely on that. I can post some saved examples if you like. It would put the FPN discussion to bed. Most people don’t believe me when I show it.
I would say get a G2 if you can. Many say there’s no much difference but there really is. They have newer boards and noise is slightly improved. The CFA is also optimised a bit more. And the RS is very minimal as well, one of the fastest CMOS sensors around without being global and you get much higher max frame rates too.
Where about are you located ?
JB
Run&Gun
Veteran
Alexa is cranking out way more “TV” than “Films”. Just because it’s shot for “TV”(broadcast, streaming, etc.) instead of first-run theatrical doesn’t say anything about the camera. Hell, there have been first-run theatrical releases shot on cell phones and mini-dv(not advocating, just saying). F55 has shot first-run theatrical movies and “TV”. As has VariCam and Alexa and RED’s. My point being, just because a camera is shooting “TV shows” doesn’t mean it doesn’t produce a top-quality image. And just because a camera is used to shoot a “movie” doesn’t mean it can. It’s all subjective and you like what you like, but don’t preclude a camera just because you don’t like the what it’s being used to shoot.
David W. Jones
Veteran
SJX
Veteran
The idea of underexposed frame is ok. but seller can fake it. Can expose correct and then fake low exposure surely? Not really to trust I would say. I just really don't fell like dropping 7K on a new blackmagic. This is for most basic shooting kit WITHOUT EVF. With EVF it shoots to over 8K. Sorry, for that I would buy an used high end camera. I think you can even buy F65 for this money already and it comes with everything besides lens. Also Alexas and Varicam LT if you like Varicam. So for me to take a chance in BMD it has to come in cheap. So if I get burned it is not for a lot of money. So not gonna happen a new G2 for me.
SJX
Veteran
So you choose one word in my post to nitpick? And one word I said tongue in cheek? I didn't mean cameras used for TV look like video. I meant the varicam looks video IN MY OPINION. Capitals and fully spelled out now so you understand. I don't care if every blockbuster was filmed with varicam. Still looks bad for me and not as good as F35, Alexa, BMD or C500. My opinion. Live with it or not. Funny guy...
SJX
Veteran
Thanks for the tip.
SJX
Veteran
Thanks John. Problem is no chance I will buy new as I explained above. I watched your clips. They look nice. They tell me a bit but at same time this is high end show and has a colorist to match shots and budget to light match and all. How is BMD out of box? This is also important. But ursa did well with alexa there. Is the ambulance passing by shot BMD by the way? What I love about F35 is the out of box image needs no work. Most other cameras do if you don't like video look. Alexa also doesn't. Looks good out of box. How is ursa? Can you shoot and just adjust basic things like contrast or just throw a LUT and be done? Or you need lots of grading to make it look not like video as with F55, FS7 etc?
John Brawley
Well-known member
I guess it depends on if you like the default look. A few years ago they added “extended” video to sit in between VIDEO and FILM as record and monitoring modes. I think extended looks pretty great out of the box, but it’s a particular look as well. Skin tones are on the warm side for example. It’s not a neutral look.
You can of course also just build your own look / LUT as well and load that into the G1 / G2.
Your needs are pretty unique. You are looking for 4K, you want portable and good for run and gun, but you favour high image fidelity (to your standard) but don’t want to have to do any post work for the default look and want it to cost 5k. That’s even before you address your “fears” for a brand name like BMD. That’s not a slight, just restating what you’re asking for as I perceive it.
I’m not sure what you would find to tick all those boxes.
JB
SJX
Veteran
I understand what you saying. But being 4K, a bit portable and practical is more important than awesome image. Awesome image I already have F35. But it is bigger and not as practical. So not looking for perfect camera. This camera is to shoot lower jobs that need quick etc. If there is budget or time I can use F35 or rent Alexa. So it looks like my decision is really C500mkI vs Ursa. Ursa wins in features, better shape etc. Canon wins better reputation for quality and reliability and will probably be cheaper. Probably commands more respect on set than BMD too but this is not that important for me.
John Brawley
Well-known member
I don’t think you’ll get any weirder looks than if you pull our your hulking big F35
Who cares about what’s respected on set !!
I’m not that familiar with the C500. I’m guessing it’s 4K because we’re talking about that as an important feature, but what codec does it record ? If it’s an external recorder, then personally that’s a big downer for me. Something else to have to power, carry and cable.
I avoid that as much as I can...
JB
This is because you are assuming everybody is a camera geek and would know what a C500 is. But most who hire you, specifically in corporate jobs would just see the Canon name, which is definitely more well known than Blackmagic. To these people a Blackmagic or a Kinefinity might as well be the same thing. I'm talking clients.
I don’t think you’ll get any weirder looks than if you pull our your hulking big F35
Who cares about what’s respected on set !!
I’m not that familiar with the C500. I’m guessing it’s 4K because we’re talking about that as an important feature, but what codec does it record ? If it’s an external recorder, then personally that’s a big downer for me. Something else to have to power, carry and cable.
I avoid that as much as I can...
JB
I have an older Alexa and even for those who don't know the Arri name or know much about cameras, the large camera actually makes them think more professional camera. So the hulking camera problem is not a real problem in that regard. No weird looks.
Yes C500 MKI does 4K to an external recorder. The only attraction I see at this point is probably price.
NorBro
Major Contributor
If they don't know exactly what they are hiring then it's all relative.
If you get hired because you own a Canon C100 and not because you have a G2 then you've already won.
I don't think you understood what I meant.
Everybody who hires you is a camera geek? Or you only work as a subhire where you are working for another shooter? Or you only hired by agencies? Or you work directly with the end client? Because my experience is with the end client, in the corporate world, they don't know much about cameras at all. They expect you to show up with professional gear. Canon sounds more professional than Blackmagic for them. Your mileage may vary depending on who you work for.
For example in the indie feature scene showing up with a HD Alexa is probably still better than showing up with the latest Blackmagic or Sony.