SJX
Veteran
C500 is what ISO and DR? I think also 12 stops? ISO 800?
It seems I would have to choose between FS700, C500 mk1, Ursa 4.6k with ND. Looking for swiss knife type of camera.
Can you pick the camera and lens ? Venice / DXL2 / Alexa 65 and lenses
- Thread starter John Brawley
- Start date
C500 is what ISO and DR? I think also 12 stops? ISO 800?
It seems I would have to choose between FS700, C500 mk1, Ursa 4.6k with ND. Looking for swiss knife type of camera.
NorBro
Major Contributor
850, and barely 11.5 stops, IMO.
Google Shane Hurlbut's C500 tests if you'd like to watch some samples/learn more. He compares it to the Alexa and REDs.
If you're on a budget, the C200B for $4K is a great deal ($3K used), especially if you have a monitor like the Atomos you mentioned.
Google Shane Hurlbut's C500 tests if you'd like to watch some samples/learn more. He compares it to the Alexa and REDs.
If you're on a budget, the C200B for $4K is a great deal ($3K used), especially if you have a monitor like the Atomos you mentioned.
NorBro
Major Contributor
12 stops is not right if so. At least 12.5 would be more reasonable if you were very conservative, but most would agree with 13+.
If you're interested in low-light shooting (meaning no-light shooting), Blackmagics really aren't the best tools unless they are used at their native ISOs (like the ARRIs).
SJX
Veteran
SJX
Veteran
Yes I think it was 12.5 stops. Ursa mini 4.6k is native what, ISO800? But not shooting no-light. Just want something that doesn't need so much light for every indoor shot. And something that see enough in dark to make somehow brighter shots under city lights without look too murky.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Basically the same as the FS700 but their picture quality differs. Colors, details, movement, perception. The FS700 has better slow-motion quality with the 7Q while the Canon C500 has better colors (no surprise there).
The C200 does everything better than the C500.
I guess only if you needed high-quality 2K or 10-bit, it would have the advantage there (with the recorder).
John Brawley
Well-known member
The big camera is an F35 ?
What kind of work are you doing ? Or really, planning to be doing ?? Drama ? Doc ? Events ?
Last four years basically I've been UM4.6K, UMP and G2 alongside Alexa. Most people can't tell. Last few shows I've done UMP g2 makes about 30% of the final episode. I've done whole scenes as only UMP and most scenes get some ursa coverage.
There's 7 UMP shots in this trailer
https://youtu.be/CWaJ6pzrV5U
And in this one....(slightly different)
https://youtu.be/hJGedvRfHYg
There's at least 30 shots in this fan edited montage from The Great, including two really important super close ups of the lead. (It's been ripped so not the best quality)
https://youtu.be/1j2D2EToUF4
About half these shots are UMP, rest Alexa...
https://youtu.be/Eh3XfedyZRk
Can you pick what's UMP in this scene ?
https://youtu.be/PYw0Cm195kc
There's more UMP in this than Alexa...
https://vimeo.com/342578070
https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/735584
These are frames from my dailies on Queen Of The South.
Can you tell me which are Alexa and which are UMP ?
It takes a "new" colourist about an episode and a half and then they can generally dial in without most people being able to
That's not the difference in my experience. You tell me if that's what you see....
See above. Basically most episodes of Season 1 and 2 of the Resident, season 2 of Queen Of The South and Season 1 of the Great have a very large number of BMD shots in them.
I have four G2's that I've had for nearly two years. They work everyday I've been working, and that's more days in a year than not, shooting thousands of hours. So far I haven't broken them.
Last show I did return two of my Alexa SXT's to Arri RENTALS with problems.
As I said, my very last show two SXT's out of three went back to Arri, while my G2's kept going fine.
I've got deep battle wounds on my G2's as well....
I took these photos of my original UM4.6K's
https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/71i24T
I never shoot past 800 on an Alexa or an URSA. If you truly want more sensitivity than that then you should look elsewhere.
Personally, I think any external monitor / recorder is a clumsy solution, but it depends on what kind of work you do as well. You want something smaller, but you're adding another device that has to be powered, cabled. It's not very zen....
JB
Last edited:
John Brawley
Well-known member
It certainly would be easier if the G2 (or whatever) wasn't always being graded to look like another camera.
JB
SJX
Veteran
Not interested in DSLR or mirrorless or even things like FS5. Not a real alternative to F35 or Alexa. Looking for alternatives to F35 or Alexa.
SJX
Veteran
I think C500 is also sharper and less noise than FS700?
SJX
Veteran
Thanks for detailed reply John.
Yes! For shoots I can light well and want a special look and people want a nice image instead of specs, like 4K I will continue to use F35. For shoots people want 4K or more run and gun situations where light is more minimum and I need to move fast I want to buy another camera.
As above. I like shooting music videos, indie films etc with F35. But if they want 4K or no budget or time to light for F35 which is ISO400 or is more run and gun, F35 is difficult. Then I need another camera. And the new camera will be used for corporate and other things too.
Thanks for the links. I will watch.
What about the infamous quality control problems? One thing that scares me from BMD is the bad rep for quality control and inconsistency. Then if you complain the fans say like what you expect, they are cheap. But I don't think this is excuse. So you feel the bad rep is not true? Because I always liked BMD colors. They look very nice. But as a pro tool I was always scared to gamble on them because it felt like gamble. You may get a good one or you may be in a nightmare horrible story. Not your experience or not the case anymore?
Because Ursa mini pro 4.6k looks like perfect shape for small but pro camera. It has basically all bells and whistles and probably much easier to use than FS700 or C500. But if I have to be lucky to get one without problems it makes it hard to swallow. Or if anything passed ISO800 will have pattern noise or vertical lines or anything passed ISO400 which is not perfect lit will also have problems, then I stay with F35. F35 has no problems like this underexposed. It just gets grainy. If you don't like grain then neatvideo makes it good again. But vertical lines and FPN etc is not that simple to fix. Quality control problems also not.
So on paper the Ursa looks like perfect camera for me. But I'm afraid if paper is lying to me.
I don't need a low light monster. Would be happy with good ISO1600 for example. This is enough for corporate shot indoors with just some LCD lights. Or to shoot night outdoors without have to light the street. Could do with ISO800 too but feel it wouldn't be enough difference to use the camera instead of F35 then.
Yes! For shoots I can light well and want a special look and people want a nice image instead of specs, like 4K I will continue to use F35. For shoots people want 4K or more run and gun situations where light is more minimum and I need to move fast I want to buy another camera.
As above. I like shooting music videos, indie films etc with F35. But if they want 4K or no budget or time to light for F35 which is ISO400 or is more run and gun, F35 is difficult. Then I need another camera. And the new camera will be used for corporate and other things too.
Thanks for the links. I will watch.
I was going by cinema 5D review. They give alexa 14.5 stops and gave ursa g2 12.5 stops or 12.1.
What about the infamous quality control problems? One thing that scares me from BMD is the bad rep for quality control and inconsistency. Then if you complain the fans say like what you expect, they are cheap. But I don't think this is excuse. So you feel the bad rep is not true? Because I always liked BMD colors. They look very nice. But as a pro tool I was always scared to gamble on them because it felt like gamble. You may get a good one or you may be in a nightmare horrible story. Not your experience or not the case anymore?
Because Ursa mini pro 4.6k looks like perfect shape for small but pro camera. It has basically all bells and whistles and probably much easier to use than FS700 or C500. But if I have to be lucky to get one without problems it makes it hard to swallow. Or if anything passed ISO800 will have pattern noise or vertical lines or anything passed ISO400 which is not perfect lit will also have problems, then I stay with F35. F35 has no problems like this underexposed. It just gets grainy. If you don't like grain then neatvideo makes it good again. But vertical lines and FPN etc is not that simple to fix. Quality control problems also not.
So on paper the Ursa looks like perfect camera for me. But I'm afraid if paper is lying to me.
I don't need a low light monster. Would be happy with good ISO1600 for example. This is enough for corporate shot indoors with just some LCD lights. Or to shoot night outdoors without have to light the street. Could do with ISO800 too but feel it wouldn't be enough difference to use the camera instead of F35 then.
SJX
Veteran
Sorry but for me it's not worth looking at. Not even the Varicam I would want. I prefer shooting with F35 or Alexa classic than Varicam LT or Varicam 35. I know it has much better ISO etc. But I hate the image. It looks like video for me. The demos from panasonic look dreadful. Don't mean to offend fans but this is my opinion. Ursa image and colors look way better too as do C500. You can now buy used varicam LTs for cheaper than new FS7. But I would still buy an old Alexa instead if I didn't have the F35. Maybe this is why the LT is so cheap too. Who knows. But color and image is very important for me. Not only bells and whistles. And F35, Alexa, Ursa and C500 all make nicer looking images IMO.
SJX
Veteran
Ok but what's your point? Even gopro can make a list like this. Also looks to be mostly TV? Video=TV maybe? And I also said it was my personal opinion. What can I do if I don't like the image? I feel the same about FS700, FS5, FS7 and even F55. Now with the venice color available for F55 it is supposedly better but I don't know. FS700 is only being considered because people are giving them away. All my personal opinion.
Grug
Veteran
Have you seen Ozark? The first two seasons were shot on the Varicam35 and they looked fantastic. Personally I preferred the look of the first two seasons to the third (where they switched to the Venice).
The Varicam has a MUCH more filmic look than the FS700 or the original C500, the highlight latitude in particular is in another league to those two.
SJX
Veteran
So why didn't you buy a varicam instead of F55? They are giving used varicams away basically. They are very cheap. I don't know what it is. Maybe those horrible demos from panasonic when varicam came out left too bitter taste in mouth. I have no interest in varicams or eva1. FS700 is not filmic at all. Like I said only because it's so cheap now I considered it. C500 has nicer skin color than varicam for me out of box.