Can I be happy with an HVX200 + Cinemek/Nikkor 50mm f/1.2?

Ralph Oshiro

Ralph Oshiro

Veteran
Well, here I go again . . .

Well, I sure got all excited about that new Sony PDW-F330 XDCAM-HD camera for awhile, but that 1/2" imager is still bugging me. If Cinemek starts to ship a nice 35mm adapter for the HVX200 soon, I just may be tempted to row back to the HVX camp again. There's nothing I like more than shallow depth-of-field, so, maybe I better think about biting the "need two more stops" bullet again. Here's why . . .

I've been looking at fast Nikkor still lenses on the B+H site all night. When you start pricing fast still lenses, all of a sudden, they don;t seem "outrageuosly" expensive as when you were considering them for your D70. For the high quality movie-making optical tools they really are (in the hands of the capable G35), they're downright cheap! Here's what's got me drooling all over my keyboard . . .

Nikkor 105mm f/1.8 AIS manual focus lens $649 (import)
Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 AIS manual focus lens $749 (import)
Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AIS manual focus lens $429 (import)
Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 AIS manual focus lens $579 (import)
Nikkor 28mm f/1.4 AF lens $1,489 (import)
Sigma 24mm f/1.8 AF lens $249 (USA)

Plus, I already own a Nikkor 180mm ED-AF f/2.8. What a lens selection! All pretty darn fast lenses. So for only $2,655, I can afford every lens except the Nikkor 28mm f/1.4 lens. With it, it comes to $4,144 (getting pricey). But, wow! Look at all you can get for only $2,655!
 
And, if you really want to bare-bones it, you could go with this set of "primes" and spend only $2,006, and have a VERY FAST set of Nikkor/Sigma primes!

Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 AIS manual focus lens $749 (import)
Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AIS manual focus lens $429 (import)
Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 AIS manual focus lens $579 (import)
Sigma 24mm f/1.8 AF lens $249 (USA)
 
Or you could sacrifice a bit of speed on the Sigma 24mm and get the manual focus Nikkor 24mm AIS f/2.0 instead.

Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 AIS manual focus lens $749 (import)
Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AIS manual focus lens $429 (import)
Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 AIS manual focus lens $579 (import)
Nikkor 24mm f/2.0 AIS manual $589 (import)

Total: $2,436

With this set-up, you can stay all-Nikkor, and all-manual.
 
But, this would be my IDEAL lens assortment if I were to get the HVX/G35:

Nikkor 180mm ED-AF f/2.8 (already own this one)
Nikkor 105mm f/1.8 AIS manual focus lens $649 (import)
Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 AIS manual focus lens $749 (import)
Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AIS manual focus lens $429 (import)
Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 AIS manual focus lens $579 (import)
Nikkor 28mm f/1.4 AF lens $1,489 (import)
Nikkor 24mm f/2.0 AIS manual focus lens $589 (import)

Total: $4,484
 
I thought your main priority was low light sensitivity, hence the idea of getting DSR-450? And HVX+G35 seems like an opposite direction...

Oh wait, you now have F330 in your sig lol hmmm
 
Long time NBC...

I like to read about your equipment crisis! (So that old Sony idea is off, then...)

This is what I think:

To put a 35mm adapter, especially a low budget one such as Cinemek or M2, is to add a lot of compllications to your shoot, and certainly loose a little bit on the sharpness side. You will have a heavier camera, difficult focus and focus pulling (SLR lenses focus barrels are a little harder then nice cinema primes or video zooms), a need for a flip image solution (extra monitor, probably) and that already calls for the need for an AC for most of the work (if you want to do it as fast as you are used to). With all this hell involved, the last think I would want would be to shoot under regular lighting, all open at f1.2. I wouldn't bother using some light at all, since that is really not a run/gun situation.

I don't think that buying high quality lenses (or spending 2-4K on them) is really necessary or even a good deal when you consider all of that. I think the adapers already degrade your image to such extent, there is really no need to go after extreme lenses. Besides, with a budget like this, some other options seem to be more desirable (for 4K you can start thinking about cinema lenses, for instance, maybe old russian lenses off ebay or even some Arri primes - not the latest digiprimes, but some pretty good f1.4 solutions) Think about good focus scales, lens gears and smooth focus barrels and lens that don't breathe.

I for one am going for the cheapest of solutions, because I still want to see what those adapters can do.

More to follow...
 
Well, when you're right, you're right, taubkin! Yeah, those Russian primes would be mighty nice! Nice focus scales, etc. I probably just talked myself back into the F330 again anyway. Thanks for your thoughts, taubkin!
 
xl70e3 said:
I thought your main priority was low light sensitivity, hence the idea of getting DSR-450? And HVX+G35 seems like an opposite direction...
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Yeah, it's just like my girlfriend issue . . . of course, I want BOTH! I want the sensitivity and low noise of the larger imager (just like my ex-girlfriend), but also desire that sexy 100mbps datarate and that "tight" form factor body of the HVX (just like the pretty young girlfriend). And the G35--what sexy images those are--that damned F330 and its 1/2" imager! Oh well.
 
NBCshooter said:
Yeah, it's just like my girlfriend issue . . . of course, I want BOTH! I want the sensitivity and low noise of the larger imager (just like my ex-girlfriend), but also desire that sexy 100mbps datarate and that "tight" form factor body of the HVX (just like the pretty young girlfriend). And the G35--what sexy images those are--that damned F330 and its 1/2" imager! Oh well.
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Im sure the HVX200 can be hacked to remove the lens to it, and make an adaptor for other lens ;)

But I wouldn't do that.

http://www.commoneffect.net/g35/drive-3.mov
It something shot with the DVX100 + a mini35 adaptor I think, and I like the feeling. But ofcourse low light kill it quickly.

But doesn't the hvx200 offer a better DOF than DVX100 already ?
 
mochouinard said:
But doesn't the hvx200 offer a better DOF than DVX100 already ?
Click to expand...

Not really.

NBC, you SO want an HVX!!! :grin:

Anyways, what I feels is that you better decide without considering 35mm adapters. They are really cool (I have a M2 5 thousand miles away from me that I just can't wait to put my hands on!), but they add a whole new deal of complications and issues, and you loose two stops (a lot!). Besides, we really don't know what they can do yet! I mean, I've seen extremely nice footage from them on the web. But c'mon, on the WEB! That cannot count as relevant data to bias a 5-10K camera purchase decision.

I think that there are several factors to make you chose one from an F330 or an HVX (should I say a F330 and a HVX? -quick grammar question!) from their specs already. I'm HVX all the way!

Cheers!
 
From what I saw 2 days ago from the XDCAM HD...the difference between 1/2"CCDs and 2/3" CCDs is much less than I had ever expected.
Maybe it's related to HD and packing so many pixels on the CCDs...but it really producted one clean image! And shallow DOF seemed to be very close (to what I remember) to shooting with 2/3" Chips. Way, way more DOF control than any 1/3" camera I have used.
I like the idea of variable bitrate on the codec as well.
Certainly interesting times....


Brian Broz
 
NBCshooter said:
Yeah, it's just like my girlfriend issue . . . of course, I want BOTH! I want the sensitivity and low noise of the larger imager (just like my ex-girlfriend), but also desire that sexy 100mbps datarate and that "tight" form factor body of the HVX (just like the pretty young girlfriend). And the G35--what sexy images those are--that damned F330 and its 1/2" imager! Oh well.
Click to expand...
I understand you so well...
 
Stevet said:
Now if they could only throw on a lens on the 330 and sell it for around 15K.
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That would be nice, and that's precisely what I was looking for at last year's NAB . . . a $15K 1/2" camera with glass. The MSRP of $16,800 is definitely WITHOUT glass, if you read the Sony info carefully. My guess is that the F330 will street price with the basic Canon lens at somewhere around $20,000.
 
I like your drive-3 video, especially the music, fit well with the video.
But I this video from someone I can't recall on this forum did something nice.
http://homepage.mac.com/twocik23/.Movies/35mm Test Footage.m4v
He did some nice stable shot while driving. I like angles he shot, his girlfriend, the dash board, himself, wheel. I didnt like the long shot of the side of the car.
I liked the changes of focus and seem to be done well. Mirror shot wasn't framed ennuf.

But those 2 clip, I keep watching. It make me consider alot the 35mm adaptor. I would love to see high def h264 or wmv clip with video style like that.

I have been looking at a sample on redrockmicro :
http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/Z1U/Scene-7_Draft.mov
It look good, but I have a Bad not movie like feeling. And I think it a 30fps feeling or it something else, I am not sure, but it look video.

I just wonder if the HVX200 will give ennuf DOF for my taste, or I'll need to spend a 1k$ more on a 35mm mount !!!
 
EyeBite said:
I was the guy who shot that, and it was with a DVX100a + the Guerilla 35 Prototype.

I don't know if I would say that light killed it more so than light kills a DVX without the G35. It "killed it" quicker (by 1-1.5 stops), but it's evident that the thing still worked.

But, don't take that test so serious as to make decisions from it. I'd only had the DVX for a few months, and the adapter 2 days, so I'm relatively new to figuring out how to use both to get the best results. You might be able to do better, especially in a better-controlled scenario - as opposed to one where I'm shooting through the window of a moving car, pointing the camera at an un-lit city.
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What lens was that shot with? What f/stop on the lens?
 
EyeBite said:
You might be able to do better, especially in a better-controlled scenario - as opposed to one where I'm shooting through the window of a moving car, pointing the camera at an un-lit city.
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Wow. Now there's a big task--Lighting a city! That's a LOT of Home Depot worklights fer certain.

NBC, I missed your hardware dillemas too. I learn more from your indecision than just about anything! :grin:

I'm with Taubkin with wondering how good a lens is needed for the ??35 solutions. I'd be nice to see footage when people can get their hands on both the camera and the adapters.

Oh, and I believe it is, "an HVX": Vocal hiatus thereby avoided (I.e. it's mo better flow).

"A horse" :undecided "an H"
 
EyeBite said:
The lens was a new Nikkor 50mm 1.8 AF (see here). When I needed all the light possible, I had the lens set to 1.8, but at all the other times during the daylight clips, I had the lens set to all different F-Stops.
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Thanks, EyeBite. Also, thanks for shooting that test and posting--very helpful in making my evaluation. Really love that shallow depth-of-field!
 
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