Can 300 shoot for client requesting DV?

nedcam

nedcam

Well-known member
Hi,

I have a shoot tomorrow where the client requested 16x9, 30P, in DV. Having sold my 100A I was wondering if I can really use the 300 for DV, meaning will it match footage shot on tape? The manual is a little confusing but I THINK my settings should be:

SYSTEM MODE: 480-59.94i
REC FORMAT: 60i
CAMERA MODE: 30P

I appreciate if someone who is expert would confirm these settings as matching the DV the editor will receive on miniDV tapes. I will try to communicate with their editor as to whether they have the downloads for accepting mxf files.

By the way, I have a lot of clients still doing HDV, like the Bronze Level Discovery shoots like Animal Planet, etc. Will the 300 have a comparable codec to HDV so I could send these clients a hard drive for easy import? And while I have your attention, yesterday I had to rent because it was a PAL client. Are there any upgrades possible for a 300 to shoot 50/25 PAL?

Thanks,

Ned
 
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Those settings are correct for DV on the 300. I recently shot DV on my 170 and it worked well in a DV environment. Just make sure you have your 300 set to anamorphic widescreen and NOT letterboxed.

And, I used to shoot HDV and can tell you that DVCPROHD has much better quality. HDV is 25 mbps and DVCPROHD is 100 mbps, so it can be argued that DVCPROHD is 4x better than HDV when it comes to compression. Not to mention the 4:2:2 colorspace for better chroma keying.

I don't know anything about PAL, so I'll let that one go to someone else.
 
Thanks Jamski!

You wrote:

"Just make sure you have your 300 set to anamorphic widescreen and NOT letterboxed."

It should be in Side Crop under System Setting correct?

Regarding HDV...perhaps the 300 is better but...I often shoot the Midwest scenes for an ongoing production or series and I have to MATCH the perviously shot HDV. So, can a codec within the 300 "match" HDV footage and be easily used in a timeline that has original HDV footage in it? The clients who are using HDV want to know if it will match, rather than if DVCPRO is better. If they feel it won't match than they will force me to rent an HDV camera and digitize tape. I am trying to get my clients to migrate to the 300 and 2700 and people are slow to accept anything new unless they have to. They are skittish about hard drives.

Thanks!

Ned
 
I don't think it's "side crop", that would result in a 4x3 shot. Our 300 is on a shoot, so I can't refer to it for settings.

As far as the HDV issue, it's hard to say if a 300 will "match" an HDV camera, especially if different people are shooting at different locations. I suppose if both shooters are accomplished, and the editor is experienced, anything can be "matched" to anything.

But if your shots are "perfect", and the HDV guy's shots are anything but (or vice versa), then it'd be a tough job for the editor to "match" them.

But you asked about the codec, which I interpreted as a question about compression/quality, not aesthetic achievements.

If you're asking if a DVCPROHD clip can play nicely in an HDV timeline, then I'd say it technically possible, but I never tried it. I'm sure the DVCPROHD footage will need "rendered" in the HDV editing environment for it to play smoothly (or the HDV clips will need rendered in a DVCPROHD timeline, which ever the editor's project is in).

I primarily edit in Premiere, which can playback pretty much anything, but would have to render a non-native clip to guarantee smooth functionality.

Good luck!
 
jamski said:
And, I used to shoot HDV and can tell you that DVCPROHD has much better quality. HDV is 25 mbps and DVCPROHD is 100 mbps, so it can be argued that DVCPROHD is 4x better than HDV when it comes to compression.
Click to expand...
This is a flawed comparison. You cannot simply compare bitrate. It is not as an easy formula as "100 = 25 * 4 ==> 4x better". In static or not busy shots HDV can be more detailed because of larger raster size.

jamski said:
Not to mention the 4:2:2 colorspace for better chroma keying.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that is an obvious benefit of DVCPROHD.
 
nedcam said:
Hi,

I have a shoot tomorrow where the client requested 16x9, 30P, in DV. Having sold my 100A I was wondering if I can really use the 300 for DV, meaning will it match footage shot on tape? The manual is a little confusing but I THINK my settings should be:

SYSTEM MODE: 480-59.94i
REC FORMAT: 60i
CAMERA MODE: 30P

I appreciate if someone who is expert would confirm these settings as matching the DV the editor will receive on miniDV tapes. I will try to communicate with their editor as to whether they have the downloads for accepting mxf files.

Ned
Click to expand...
in the system setup menu, that's where you want the "camera mode" set to 30P, and the "aspect conversion" setting set to "squeeze" - that will guarantee the standard 1.2 widescreen DV. Also please note that setting the camera to 30P will result in a brighter low light capability since the shutter speed will default to 1/30th... that results in a "look" that some of the people I shoot for do not like... so you may want to use the switch on the front next to the white balance to set a shutter of 1/60th... I prefer the 1/30th shutter, but your client (and mine) may not...

What you can do for the editor is play the footage out through the firewire when you're done and record it onto a DV deck (I use the Sony DSR-30) and it comes out standard widescreen on the tape (assuming you've set the aspect conversion to squeeze as I mentioned.) Then just give the editor a DV tape (or tapes) and nobody has to worry about whether the editing system will take the MXF files...
 
jamski said:
Just make sure you have your 300 set to anamorphic widescreen and NOT letterboxed.
Click to expand...

To get widescreen DV, set the aspect conversion to "squeeze" for 16x9 DV. I do this all the time and it is a fact! I used to own a Sony DSR-450 widescreen DV camera (the big brother to the DSR-570) and I'm used to shooting and editing DV widescreen.
 
You're right, thanks! I now remember the 100A had to be put into "squeeze" for real 16x9.

Ned
 
nedcam said:
I have a shoot tomorrow where the client requested 16x9, 30P, in DV.
Click to expand...
The HPX300 can do that.

SYSTEM MODE: 480-59.94i
REC FORMAT: 60i
CAMERA MODE: 30P
Click to expand...
Looks good, but you're also going to want to change the recording codec to DV and make sure you're using widescreen mode ("squeeze") and not "normal" or "letterbox".

I will try to communicate with their editor as to whether they have the downloads for accepting mxf files.
Click to expand...
This might be kind of silly, but you could actually shoot direct to DV tape, if you somehow firewire'd the output of your HPX300 into a little miniDV camcorder. That way the miniDV camcorder would be actually recording the DV footage to tape and you could hand them tapes -- if that's what they want.

Will the 300 have a comparable codec to HDV so I could send these clients a hard drive for easy import?
Click to expand...
No, but it has two better codecs, DVCPRO-HD and AVC-Intra. For maximum editor friendliness I would probably suggest DVCPRO-HD at this time, if you're wanting to supply to folks who are cutting HDV. AVC-Intra support is growing, but it's not ubiquitous like DVCPRO-HD support is.

And while I have your attention, yesterday I had to rent because it was a PAL client. Are there any upgrades possible for a 300 to shoot 50/25 PAL?
Click to expand...
Yes, contact the Panasonic service center, for a fee they can upgrade your HPX300 into an HPX301E, which is 24p/25p, 50p/60p switchable.
 
nedcam said:
Thanks Jamski!

You wrote:

"Just make sure you have your 300 set to anamorphic widescreen and NOT letterboxed."

It should be in Side Crop under System Setting correct?
Click to expand...
No no no -- "side crop" is 4x3.

So, can a codec within the 300 "match" HDV footage and be easily used in a timeline that has original HDV footage in it?
Click to expand...
DVCPRO-HD is the closest you'll get, as AVC-Intra is just way superior to HDV.
 
I have been using the HPX300 to shoot DV with very good results. I know that a lot of people like to shoot HD or HDV for DVD releases, though for an event where the product will be DVD only it really makes the work flow much easier to shoot in DV. Furthermore DV on a 32 Meg P2 card can give you 2 hours of recording. This is great for Plays or theater events. Once at the request of another production company I did shoot a theater event on HD though I spent most of the time dumping HD video to the hard drive and hot swapping P2 cards. That production company hoped to offer a HD product in addition to the DVD. The HD sale never came through for them.

I guess shooting HD or to shoot DV is a call that the videographer has to make. Shooting a play or sports event on DV makes sense given that HD sales are unlikely. However, to shoot scenics, rare events, TV and film material in HD makes a lot of sense. If I think that the client or that the material can be resold for HD content, then Ill shoot in HD.
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
Well wouldn't AVCIntra 50 be closer to HDV? I know it's a 8-bit to 10-bit thing, but color space wise?
Click to expand...

AVC-Intra 50 is 4:2:0 but it is not Long GOP like HDV. Each Frame is independent making the clarity far better than HDV. This format is a good choice for TV news, sports, or when you want a lot of HD video on a card with out a lot of card swaping or needing to dump video.
 
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