Camera Recommendation 4K

K

kirkeric

Member
Hello,

This looked like the best place to try and post this. I have an old Panasonic HMC 150 and I'm looking to upgrade. I had been pondering the Ursa Mini 4.6K and just realized that's a bit out of my price range so I'm setting my sights a little lower. First one that came on my radar is the Panasonic HC-X1. It's looks pretty good at $3200.

My question is, what do folks here think of it? Is there something comparable in price range to this or comparable to this price by similar quality to Ursa? Looking for recommendations.

I do indie work, commercials, etc.

Thanks ahead.

Eric
Kirk Productions
 
You will need to decide if you want to jump into the 4k pool. While it is a certain image improvement, distribution in 4k is still a long way from happening. Although 4k is a nice thing, do you need it? Panny has multiple 4k handycams including the DVX-200. Would you prefer recording to an 422 I-frame codec in 1080? This would be a huge improvement over the AVCHD HMC-150. I came along with the Panny progression; DVX100b, HPX170 and now a AJ-PX270. The 270 is an excellent handycam, maybe the best ever considering the wealth of features. More recently they came out with the PX230 which is the same camera without the connectivity bells and whistles. I would have done the PX230 if it was available at the time, although the DVX200 would get some strong consideration.

Grant
 
Thanks for the quick reply. Lots of options there, though I do want to go with 4K, understanding exactly what you mean. I find some utility in having the extra real estate of working a 1920x1080 project with 4k. Often is helpful if I need to cut something out. The PX230 has a hefty price tag on it but the DVX 200 seems to be basically similar to the HX-X1 but has 4:2:2. I'm liking that option - though saw some mixed reviews. Do you know enough to comment on those two? PX230 vs HC-X1? Appreciate it.
 
As mentioned, the PX230 is a slimmed down 270, image quality would be identical, though it is not a 4k cam. It has the same brain and most features as the Panny 5000 series. You would want to look at the two cams feature by feature to see if there was anything on the 270 you couldn't live without. For the most part, I am very satisfied with the 270. It is a really well thought out cam and has more features than you could ever use. My only gripe that way is the menus are so extensive, you sometimes have to look around for a feature you know is there somewhere. Some have squibbed that the lens could be better, but for a fixed lens handycam, I think it is plenty good enough and no handycam will have superior prime quality lens given the price. The 22x zoom is awesome when you need it; think back of the auditorium for that corporate conference. I have read about the newer generation 4k PannyCams, but have no personal experience. For me, and the work I do, 422 and I-Frame is pretty important.

Right now, the 230 is selling for $3995 at BH, but all these handycams have significantm periodic (and often) rebates, so just be patient and I bet you could find it for around $3250. There is extensive info about the DVX200 and Barry Green has published a free user guide which is worth the read no matter what PannyHandy you are looking at. Barry is a founder and regular contributor to this board and has written a series of PannyBooks.

Grant
 
Panasonic

Panasonic

Hey, appreciate this run down. The way I see it, seems I need to make a decision between the DVX200 and this HC X1 with the key difference being the 4:2:2 and I think maybe the SDI out. Tough decision.

ggrantly said:
As mentioned, the PX230 is a slimmed down 270, image quality would be identical, though it is not a 4k cam. It has the same brain and most features as the Panny 5000 series. You would want to look at the two cams feature by feature to see if there was anything on the 270 you couldn't live without. For the most part, I am very satisfied with the 270. It is a really well thought out cam and has more features than you could ever use. My only gripe that way is the menus are so extensive, you sometimes have to look around for a feature you know is there somewhere. Some have squibbed that the lens could be better, but for a fixed lens handycam, I think it is plenty good enough and no handycam will have superior prime quality lens given the price. The 22x zoom is awesome when you need it; think back of the auditorium for that corporate conference. I have read about the newer generation 4k PannyCams, but have no personal experience. For me, and the work I do, 422 and I-Frame is pretty important.

Right now, the 230 is selling for $3995 at BH, but all these handycams have significantm periodic (and often) rebates, so just be patient and I bet you could find it for around $3250. There is extensive info about the DVX200 and Barry Green has published a free user guide which is worth the read no matter what PannyHandy you are looking at. Barry is a founder and regular contributor to this board and has written a series of PannyBooks.

Grant
Click to expand...
 
Hey Grant,

I'm back. lol So, just when i thought I had things narrowed down to the DVX200 or HC-X1 cameras, a good editor bud threw me a curve ball, which I'll get to in one second. In reviewing more youtube videos including Barry Green's on the DVX200 recording formats, etc, one thing sort of caught my ear. The 422 10 bit recording only works if recording to an external device? Not sure what that entails but I kind of like slipping in an SD card and shooting so that sort of makes me lean toward the newer HC-X1 - with my only question being the value of the larger sensor and how that stacks up.

Now, the curve, the Canon C100 Mark II. What do you (or anyone here) know about this? The only thing I can see off hand is that it's not 4K but has a 4K sensor. Now, the guy I know does editing for some Hollywood movies (many straight to DVD, semi low budget) but he described this camera as capable of shooting a feature film.

So, I find myself again having some difficulty making the final decision. The Canon C100 does jump me up to about $4500 but I think I could do that if I thought the bang was worth the buck. Obviously this now places me in the removable lens category too.

Thoughts?

Thanks ahead.


Eric


ggrantly said:
As mentioned, the PX230 is a slimmed down 270, image quality would be identical, though it is not a 4k cam. It has the same brain and most features as the Panny 5000 series. You would want to look at the two cams feature by feature to see if there was anything on the 270 you couldn't live without. For the most part, I am very satisfied with the 270. It is a really well thought out cam and has more features than you could ever use. My only gripe that way is the menus are so extensive, you sometimes have to look around for a feature you know is there somewhere. Some have squibbed that the lens could be better, but for a fixed lens handycam, I think it is plenty good enough and no handycam will have superior prime quality lens given the price. The 22x zoom is awesome when you need it; think back of the auditorium for that corporate conference. I have read about the newer generation 4k PannyCams, but have no personal experience. For me, and the work I do, 422 and I-Frame is pretty important.

Right now, the 230 is selling for $3995 at BH, but all these handycams have significantm periodic (and often) rebates, so just be patient and I bet you could find it for around $3250. There is extensive info about the DVX200 and Barry Green has published a free user guide which is worth the read no matter what PannyHandy you are looking at. Barry is a founder and regular contributor to this board and has written a series of PannyBooks.

Grant
Click to expand...
 
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You really have to approach these kind of purchase decisions from useability backwards. Meaning that the C100 and the PX270 are in a different universe in terms of how you shoot with these cameras. If you do not know what your work demands you are just guessing with the camera purchase.

I am a PX270 owner and think it is a workhorse with top notch image quality and useability. But this is for my work, a lot of live event video shooting. Imho, the image from the PX270 is better than the new Penny 4k cams. Why? Because camera makers have always priced in end image quality. The 10 bit 4:2:2 and image processing is just better than the lower prices cameras. The choice gets muddy when products get kind of mixed up with features and price. Not to the new cameras do not offer a good value, but the P2 cameras are their cream of the crop.

What should you do? Tell us more about how you shoot and if you need shallow DOF or run and fun versatility. All cameras these days will make nice images.
 
If you have a limited budget, you have compromises to make. As Bassman as well as your editor friend pointed out, pretty pictures are nice, but there is more to it than 4K. I have given the C100 strong consideration as I have EF glass in my cabinet. But when I looked at the total of getting one ready to shoot, the C100 was going to cost more by a fair amount. The 270 had a friendly-familiar feel and my P2 cards and batteries were already bought.

In reality, compared to the hmc150, either cam will be a light years improvement.
 
Thanks all. My use is for shooting movies, commercials, mostly movies so I'm looking for the most cinamatic look I can get within budget.

I have no glass laying around so I know I will need to invest $4500 to be up and running with the C100. Certainly not looking to complicate the purchase. :)

The simple choice is to just get the HC X1 but thought wanted to see if anyone jumped right on the C100 - if cost is not a factor. I'd be willing to go to that.

Eric
 
If you don't need - or urgently require - auto focus, you can get by with C100 with a 17-55mm lens and a small external ProRes capable recorder.

And a couple of dark horses- A6300, A6500 and GH5. Add a few inexpensive Samyang primes and the external monitor/recorder and you can shoot a pretty decent looking flick (you'll need some lights, of course, too).
 
Yes. With the term movies in your list I would say a sensor of m4/3rds or larger is needed. The handicams should not even be on the list. The three mentioned by DLD are great choices and with a lens or two would be under your budget.
 
Hey, thanks for all the great comments.

I will make a decision soon and all of your input has been very important and informative to me so I very much appreciate the candid replies.

Eric
 
Hey thanks - overlooked this response. Not sure of sensor size on the C100 but will check. The DVX200 I believe does have the 4/3s sensor. So, if I'm interpreting your message, the three mentioned including the C100. I'll check out the other three and see prices. At a quick glance, i'm guessing those three cameras probably require external audio recording.

Eric
 
Yes, the "small" cameras would need a separate audio recording for proper sound. The C100 has an APS-C sensor as does the a6300/a6500. Tons of choices these days!
 
Thanks. Those certainly are cheaper cameras but I think I need to go to the higher end C100, the HC-1X, or the DVX200 with the 4/3 sensor. I think that's what I'm down to at this point.

Plus, I want onboard XLR and I was told the C100 has a beautiful sound card.

Eric
 
Hello,

Since we were talking lenses the other day, I had these two laying around the house for years. My mother gave them to me, have no idea where they came from. Can anyone identify any use for them regarding this thread? I suppose the main question is, would either be useful on the C100? The larger beast is obviously some huge telephoto lens. Thought it would be worth asking.

This is just 2 lenses with different angles.

Thanks,
Eric


Lens 2.jpgLens 4.jpgLens 5.jpgLens 6.jpgLens 7.jpgLens 8.jpgLens 9.jpgLens1.jpgLens3.jpg
 
Thanks. I supposed that would have been my obvious thought but since I don't really deal in lenses much, I thought perhaps there was a standard connection.

Good enough, worth asking. I wont be searching for adapters or any of that stuff, plus it occurred to me that there will be no auto focus or zoom with some off brand lense.

Eric


Bassman2003 said:
They say Nikon on the side, so no go for Canon!
Click to expand...
 
Nikon makes very good lenses but they zoom and focus in the opposite direction as Canon (and the video industry). Adapters are available but mixing focus directions would be very annoying. You have plenty of choices with the Canon lineup.
 
Hello all,

I began this thread a week or two ago and have basically settled on getting the Canon C100 Mark II, though haven't pulled the trigger on the order yet. I've trying to fully understand the lenses and so forth but one thing I read regarding the footage of a "cine" camera versus I guess a regular video camera. One comment I read was that it was more difficult or more work to deal with raw footage from a cine camera because you have to deal with it in post.

Now, I basically run all my video through color editing and other stuff in after effects. Is that what they mean? I mean for me, maybe that's already second nature and I've over reading but wanted to understand.

Thanks ahead.

Eric

Bassman2003 said:
Nikon makes very good lenses but they zoom and focus in the opposite direction as Canon (and the video industry). Adapters are available but mixing focus directions would be very annoying. You have plenty of choices with the Canon lineup.
Click to expand...
 
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