Camera on shoulder or front of it?

Sometimes simpler is better. but still keeping the prior discussed principles in mind. the closer the center of gravity is to the top of your shoulder, the better your life will be

i've become fond of this cheap but effective little rig, even without the counterweights it's not bad for shoots of a few hours (with a smaller camera), and you can either get counterweights or a strap to offset the weight. weights will feel more natural, the strap design will work nicely and make your load lighter, but adds some restriction in motion and may feel awkward to some.


nice clean weights http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005S1D4J0/?tag=dlevi-20
 
that opteka thing is really just a glorified "gun-stock" which isnt a bad thing. it would be a big upgrade from hand-held. but the point of view is going to be uncomfortably low and youre not going to carry much on it.
 
What if I combine a cage and shoulder design? Like from these elements?

Cage:
http://www.cinegearpro.com/cgpro-ul...k-iii-1dmkiv-d3s-or-5d-7d-w-battery-grip.html

Handles:
http://www.cinegearpro.com/side-handles.html
or:
http://www.cinegearpro.com/lpt-lanp...9mm-universal-adjustable-front-hand-grip.html

Shoulderpad:
http://www.cinegearpro.com/cgpro-soft-shoulder-pad.html

+Counterweight?

+ instead of FF I would use something like this: http://store.redrockmicro.com/Catalog/DSLR-microFollowFocus/nanofocuszoomlever

I love the top handle option of cage designs. And unlike shoulder designs, they enable a huge variety of camera positions.....

Or just go and something like this ???
http://www.pec.co.uk/pecvnew/dslr/genus-video-shoulder-mount-g-vcsmk.html
 
As I see the Cinegearpro cage I linked essentially is the same as the Trusmt cage....
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yeah. a LOT Of these things are chinese copies of chinese copies. and one will be nearly, if not exactly as good as the other.

you can certainly mix and match stuff from different manufacturers. but be aware they will all have different appreciation of precision. so you may have to wiggle or shove here and there to get things to all fit together. but that can even be true with parts from some single brand setups. so your mileage will vary ; )

though it is usually better quality on several levels, one of the main things you get with the more expensive gear (zacuto, redrock, shoot35, etc) is customer support. IF something breaks, companies like these are really good about repairing or replacing things. a lot of the cheaper, foreign dealers (not all but most) are often hard to reach, hard to communicate with and slow to get service.

I love the top handle option of cage designs.
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if you plan to do low to the ground perspectives, a top handle is awesome. and again, great for action sports (skateboard, snowboard/ski, etc...) but be sure that you "love" them for a real reason. not just because you think theyre cool.

And unlike shoulder designs, they enable a huge variety of camera positions.....
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thats mostly NOT true. what they DO enable is several connection points for accessories.

Or just go and something like this ???
http://www.pec.co.uk/pecvnew/dslr/ge...t-g-vcsmk.html
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that LOOKS like a good idea in theory. but id be curious about it in practice. that counterweight is set just behind (and practically right ON) your shoulder. so as illustrated, its not going to do a lot of good. the counterweight isnt just about weight. its about position.

think of it like a seesaw. if you have a 50lb kid at one end and a 50lb kid at the other end - it works. but if you move one of the kids closer to the fulcrum point, its going to take more and more weight to be effective. and since YOU are the fulcrum, MORE WEIGHT is not the answer.

you need to be sure your rods are long enough (or that there is a second connection mechanism) to get your camera far enough away from your face. to accommodate focus access and different size lenses AND to get your counterweights far enough BEHIND your shoulder to be effective.

as a side-note. that genus thing is using a larger camera baseplate (like for a small red, c300/100, fs or other handycam style video camera) i'd look to see if they had a smaller, DSLR style baseplate
 
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I love the top handle not just because of shooting, but handling and transporting.

A rig like I just linked previously (cage+shoulder pad+handles) would cost me approximately around 500 USD. But I still need counterweights and.... a follow focus... And then my budget is shattered :D

Could you advise me some good follow focus which are not that expensive? How about Kamerar follow focus (http://www.cinegearpro.com/kamerar-socom-ff-3-follow-focus-w-single-rod-clamp.html)?
Maybe ProAim? DFocus seems so fragile...

I found these recently: http://www.cinegearpro.com/cgpro-follow-focus-with-a-b-hard-stops-new.html
It's almost in the Lanparte price range, but seems well made also.

I think this rig would be really compact, small and very practical to use. Later on with a matte box it could be upgraded.

So... If I can nail down a rig+FF+monitor at a really good price... then my budget would be saved... But these things are expensive as hell...
 
question: tell me why you NEED a follow focus?

reason i ask is not to be argumentative, but to help you narrow down NEED VS WANT and reduce your end cost
 
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wgzn said:
question: tell me why you NEED a follow focus?

reason i ask is not to be argumentative, but to help you narrow down NEED VS WANT and reduce your end cost
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Ok, and thanks for that! Seeing the prices I try to do the same, just the really essentials...

So lets summerize: first I wanted a rig like this:
http://www.camerakings.co.uk/lanparte-basic-kit-save-345/

But I moved away from it, towards something like from these components:
http://www.cinegearpro.com/cgpro-ul...k-iii-1dmkiv-d3s-or-5d-7d-w-battery-grip.html
http://www.cinegearpro.com/cgpro-soft-shoulder-pad.html
http://www.cinegearpro.com/trusmt-dual-side-handgrip-v1-set-of-2.html
(+counterweight if needed)

(I would be glad if I could find that part what is shown on the last product (and the second picture there), the rod and that clamp thing that holds the handgrips farther away.)

On this system I have to put my future Tascam Dr-05 + Rode VideoMic Pro (Do I need the Rode if I buy the Tascam?)
+
Some kind of monitor or viewfinder. I would prefer the monitor route. The picture will be probably shot mainly indoors. I would say the 2/3 of it.

So... Follow Focus.
I think I need that because the fine adjustment ability of the FF + holding its knob it would give me an additional point of contact. I looked at the redrock focus+zoom lever stuff, but 1, I cant see how it would attach to a Rokinon Cine Lens with already built in lens gear, 2,With this solution you cant hold your hand firmly on it like on a focus knob, so no additional point of stability. Just my shoulder and right hand with the handgrip.

Thanks for helping!
 
fine adjustment ability of the FF + holding its knob it would give me an additional point of contact
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NOPE.

absolutely f#@ing not!!!
thats arguably the complete OPPOSITE reason why you'd NEED a follow focus.

at this pont it is EXCEPTIONALLY clear that you've seen WAY the hell too many bloom / laforet vimeo review videos...
 
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a follow focus serves two primary tasks:

1. using the marking disc + hard stops, allows the focus puller (often NOT the camera operator) to move between set start and stop focus points
2. allows the focus puller (again, often NOT the camera operator) to control focus of moving objects

if you are THE ONLY camera operator (which i'm guessing you are) AND youre shooting on a shoulder rig. a "follow focus" (of ANY price) is of nearly ZERO more value to YOU than your own hand on the focus ring of the lens. it's just another MUCH more expensive way of doing the EXACT same thing.
 
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wgzn said:
a follow focus serves two primary tasks:

1. using the marking disc + hard stops, allows the focus puller (often NOT the camera operator) to move between set start and stop focus points
2. allows the focus puller (again, often NOT the camera operator) to control focus of moving objects

if you are THE ONLY camera operator (which i'm guessing you are) AND youre shooting on a shoulder rig. a "follow focus" (of ANY price) is of nearly ZERO more value to YOU than your own hand on the focus ring of the lens. it's just another MUCH more expensive way of doing the EXACT same thing.
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Alright, I see the reason behind what you say... Basically it's the same as rotating the focus on the lens. The only difference is the angle, right? The FF is 90 degrees rotated so my hand is in a different angle. However I'm still concerned about the distances between the close and infinite point at the focus. Doesn't my hand to turn more on the lens focus then with the follow focus knob?

Thanks again! I'm happy to spend less! :D
 
Doesn't my hand to turn more on the lens focus then with the follow focus knob?
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it all depends on the specific lens and the gear ratio on the ff and lens gear.
 
When using lenses that have a short focus ring travel lenght I'd go the FF route. It's much beter.
 
Alright.

What about FFs like Kamerar, DFocus or Wondlan? They're around 250USD here. If I'll have some surplus money I'd like to get one. If don't have the money, then simple will live without it :)


BTW: What do you think of my proposed rig design?
 
the ONLY sub $750 follow focus ive ever used that didnt cause more problems than it solved is the tilta.

go to ebay and search for "tilta follow focus" its about $450. but it compares with $1000+ models
 
Oh, that's way to much for my budget right now.... I hope my proposed Rokinon Cine lens (probably 35mm) will be easy to focus on the lens.
 
in some topic a guy wrote it:
" I use all manual focus lenses so the focus throw is long. However, because it is long, when I try to focus I always need to stop because my hand can only turn so much."

This is exactly the problem I'd wanted to get some info on, but didn't know how to ask in english :)

So could anyone please tell me about this?
 
it becomes an issue of situational variable. what causes problems for one guy is no big deal for another.

in the "long focus throw" discussion. you'd never notice it being a problem if you just happen to have never shot something with that much distance between two subjects
in the "budget folow focus backlash" discussion. you'd never notice it being a problem if you have heavy focus rings or have play in your gears

doing all this research is both good and bad. on one hand you get to learn from everyone elses mistakes. on the other you may think you HAVE TO HAVE something or have to have A CERTAIN THING, when in your use, you may never encounter that problem.

from listening to what youve been saying. i think a follow focus should be fairly low on your list of purchase priority. if focus throw becomes an issue, there are things you can do in a pinch to get around it.

and on the subject of prices. if the difference between a decent and a good product is a couple hundred bucks or so. i say youd be best advised to simply save your money a little while longer until you can afford it rather than just spending what you have now on a sub-standard product.
 
wgzn said:
it becomes an issue of situational variable. what causes problems for one guy is no big deal for another.

in the "long focus throw" discussion. you'd never notice it being a problem if you just happen to have never shot something with that much distance between two subjects
in the "budget folow focus backlash" discussion. you'd never notice it being a problem if you have heavy focus rings or have play in your gears

doing all this research is both good and bad. on one hand you get to learn from everyone elses mistakes. on the other you may think you HAVE TO HAVE something or have to have A CERTAIN THING, when in your use, you may never encounter that problem.

from listening to what youve been saying. i think a follow focus should be fairly low on your list of purchase priority. if focus throw becomes an issue, there are things you can do in a pinch to get around it.

and on the subject of prices. if the difference between a decent and a good product is a couple hundred bucks or so. i say youd be best advised to simply save your money a little while longer until you can afford it rather than just spending what you have now on a sub-standard product.
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thanks again! good thoughts!

I think I spend only on the absolute necessary things. Either it has to have an effect on the end product, or make usability extremely easier. So NO FF, NO MATTEBOX.

But... I think I'm settled on the Marshall V-LCD51 monitor + Rokinon/Samyang cine lens + Cheap rig (trusmt like dslr cage+handle+shoulderpad).

These are my big expenditures. Other money goes for HDDs, SD cards, sound etc... I would be glad if I could buy one more lens on the wide end... That's it :)

BTW: When we speak about the El Mariachi and Following type of movies.... did this directors used FF? The picture I see of them almost exclusively with an Arri 16mm BL + lens... No lens gear, no mattebox, no etc...
 
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