Camera on shoulder or front of it?

I believe that movement is more natural the closest it is to being directly over your shoulder. When the camera is too far out, the center of gravity is being upheld by your arms rather than your shoulder/body so it introduces more jitters and camera shake. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
The actual camera and viewfinder/monitor used will usually dictate where the camera can be mounted when doing shoulder work.

Big camera vs small camera, along with the position of the viewfinder in use.
 
I believe that movement is more natural the closest it is to being directly over your shoulder. When the camera is too far out, the center of gravity is being upheld by your arms rather than your shoulder/body so it introduces more jitters and camera shake. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
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The actual camera and viewfinder/monitor used will usually dictate where the camera can be mounted when doing shoulder work.

Big camera vs small camera, along with the position of the viewfinder in use.
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both absolutely correct.

even if the camera is directly over your shoulder, you are going to feel fatigue in your hands and arms pretty quickly (simply from the weight of the rig itself) if there isnt some counterbalance weight behind your shoulder.

thats a very common mistake that young, inexperienced rig-shoppers fail to consider.
do the following little exercise. hold your hands out about where they would be with a rig. and walk around like that for about 2 minutes. even with NOTHING, youre going to start to feel it in your biceps, triceps and lats. now add, 5, 7, 10 or more lbs to that. unless you have counterbalance weight behind your shoulder. thats going to suck, pretty much right out of the gate.

Or something like a synergy of both systems:
http://www.coollcd.com/images/camera...n-5d-7d_02.jpg
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HOLY CRAP! for the reasons mentioned above, that rig would be DREADFUL! youd be carrying all the weight of the monitor, rig and most of the camera on your arms. that would suck after about 2 minutes of use. the compact nature of the setup would make it a little better. but not dramatically.

and i dont know if ive "lectured" to you about this previously. but with a dual-grip system AND a follow focus. when you take your left hand off teh grip to operate the focus, you would then be carrying most of the weight with your right hand and the rest by the focus wheel itself. thats NOT a good idea. if you do a lot of one-man-band work and want to use a follow focus, id suggest a single, center-mounted grip
 
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so you say something like it would be better:
http://www.camerakings.co.uk/lanparte-basic-kit-save-345/

As I figured out I could turn the handles in a way to get something similar to Shane Hurblut's rig:
http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2011/10/18/8886504/ManCamRig.jpg

What would you say about cage designs? I see many photos of cage rigs equipped with FF and monitor but I wonder how can they be used handheld? How can you use something like that and adjusting focus at the same time? I tried to find some videos about it but didn't succeed...
 
so you say something like it would be better:
http://www.camerakings.co.uk/lanpart...-kit-save-345/
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NO!. thats just the same as the rest of them. there is NOTHING behind your shoulder for counterbalance. so youre carrying the weight of everything in front of your shoulder with your hands. if youre CARRYING weight with your hands, its going to make harder to OPERATE things. 90% of the rigs out there are poorly configured and most people are so brainwashed by what they THINK theyre SUPPOSED to have that they dont know any better.

look at ENG cameras (which is what shoulder rigs are trying to emulate)
http://wildimages.tv/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/PanasonicHDX900.png
a good bit of the bulk of the camera is on and behind the shoulder. and thats why this design has worked for SO MANY YEARS. it makes sense. having counter-balance weight behind your shoulder takes weight off your hands. thus freeing your hands to "steer" the camera and operate focus rather than also having to carry a good bit of the weight.

What would you say about cage designs?
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unless you need to protect your camera (for action sports shooters) i find them kind of dumb.

I see many photos of cage rigs equipped with FF and monitor but I wonder how can they be used handheld?
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they're used like a fig rig. sort of like a ships steering wheel. they DO tend to make walking motion smoother than a shoulder rig. but when you add all that extra gear and youre ONLY supporting it with your hands. it will get heavy pretty quickly. and with two hands ON the cage. you have no hand to operate the follow focus. so again, see my "dumb" perception above.

How can you use something like that and adjusting focus at the same time?
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 for the most part, YOU CANT. the exception would be if you had a top-handle on the cage. but top-handles are really best suited ergonomically for "low-mode" shooting. so its kind of a specific use kinda thing. again, best suited to the action sports shooter.

the BIG misperception about rigs is that a lot of the rig-buying community sees the rigs of folks like phillip bloom and shane hurlbut. and they think "well, if _______ uses it. it must be the way to go" and thats completely WRONG. what you see them using in one situation is likely not what they use in EVERY situation. so when young DSLR jockey only has $1000 to spend on ONE rig and he tries to emulate what he saw phillip bloom using. what he ends up with may be totally unsuited for his own shooting needs or style.
 
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Or a rig with a crossbar design and adjustable handle positions so you can switch between dual or single grip, ya?
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yeah. that would be the way i'd go about it. with a crossbar, you can not only go between single and dual setups. but if your rig shape changes, so will the center of gravity. so the crossbar mount will give you room to accommodate those kinds of changes
 
So what would you recommend design-wise in rigs? I try to get something for my D7000 for a no-budget feature shoot this summer.
 
ive pretty much given you my entire theory on rigs. if you think you have to have a shoulder rig. just do your research. dont just go off half-cocked and buy the coolest looking thing you can afford.

genus, gini, redrock, shoot35, jag, zacuto, ikan, tilta, all make good things. and dont forget craigslist or ebay. there are a lot of good deals to be found.

the one thing i would clearly insist on is counterbalance. and that can be done a number of ways. even if its just getting longer rods and bongo-tying a small sandbag on the back.

before i dropped any cash. the first things i would ask myself are:
- "what external gear will i NEED?"
- do i really NEED a "rig" or could i get by fine with just a tripod/monopod?

the first thing to consider is what DON'T you NEED?
1. unless you plan to use a variety of or stack filters, you can get by as well with a screw-on lens hood as you can with a mattebox
2. unless you're going to do a lot of repeated focus moves (like where youd need a marking wheel or hard stops) you'd be just as well off focusing "hands-on-lens" as you would with some cheap follow focus. its been my experience that (with the exception of the tilta) ANY follow focus under about $750 new, creates as many problems as it is does solutions.
3. do you need a shoulder rig at all? could your shots be as (or even more) successful shot on a tripod or monopod?
 
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the best rig is the one that get gravity center rear and low.
It does not matter where you put the camera if you got enough counterweight to make the handle going up.
this way you do not have to lift something but rather to hold the handles leave the weight of your arm do the rest.
if you can you can put the LCD very low under the rig, and also batteries in the back , so the gravity center is under the camera.
I built several rig like this and it is a pleasure to use even several hours and itis so stable that you can use only one hand if you need.
sx3.jpg
 
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if you got enough counterweight to make the handle going up.
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definitely way better than front-heavy. but you dont want it rear-heavy either. you really want it as perfectly balanced as possible.. not that you would. but you really want to be able to just let go of the grips and have the rig basically stay in place.

if you can you can put the LCD very low under the rig
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ive done that. and it can be handy while shooting. but it can aslo make the rig really cumbersome when you try to set it down.

personally, i prefer an EVF/loupe to a monitor. that way you dont have to worry about ambient light. or a big-ass monitor arm and sunshade.

in my experience. external monitors are best used by directors, jib-operators, clients, etc. for on-rig use. id go EVF/loupe EVERY time.
 
that is why rigs are more and more important.
You do not have control on camera size, weight, shape etc....
You only know they tends to be smaller and smaller, get stranger shape ...
The only control you get is your rig and knowing your rig is ok to accept almost any camera is the safe way to go.
The consequence of that is your rig must adapt to some different situations.
you should be able to use an LCD monitor or a loupe, be able to set handles different ways and get wheight distributed according
the payload. additional batteries, lights, video transceiver or recorder, folow focus, mattebox ,prompter, audio boxes , quick release plates...
currently , i am building a new rig (mainly from lanparte parts because they are good enough and cheap enough for me)
just with this target in mind using my previous DYI experiments
 
wgzn said:
ive pretty much given you my entire theory on rigs. if you think you have to have a shoulder rig. just do your research. dont just go off half-cocked and buy the coolest looking thing you can afford.

genus, gini, redrock, shoot35, jag, zacuto, ikan, tilta, all make good things. and dont forget craigslist or ebay. there are a lot of good deals to be found.

the one thing i would clearly insist on is counterbalance. and that can be done a number of ways. even if its just getting longer rods and bongo-tying a small sandbag on the back.

before i dropped any cash. the first things i would ask myself are:
- "what external gear will i NEED?"
- do i really NEED a "rig" or could i get by fine with just a tripod/monopod?

the first thing to consider is what DON'T you NEED?
1. unless you plan to use a variety of or stack filters, you can get by as well with a screw-on lens hood as you can with a mattebox
2. unless you're going to do a lot of repeated focus moves (like where youd need a marking wheel or hard stops) you'd be just as well off focusing "hands-on-lens" as you would with some cheap follow focus. its been my experience that (with the exception of the tilta) ANY follow focus under about $750 new, creates as many problems as it is does solutions.
3. do you need a shoulder rig at all? could your shots be as (or even more) successful shot on a tripod or monopod?
Click to expand...

Hey,
My main priority is the no-budget feature I want to shoot this summer. I don't want to go for a static look, so that rules out tripods and sliders stuff. (For certain static shots my Manfrotto photo tripod will be great). So I'd like to get a rig which fits my needs.

What about this one, with counterweights:
http://www.smallhd.com/gallery/wp-content/uploads/admin/Makepeace_Tim_IMG_2042.jpeg
?

On Cinegearpro.co.uk I found two Kamerar rig options, the first one is the basic, the second version is shown with counterweights:
http://www.cinegearpro.com/kamerar-socom-dslr-shoulder-rig-system.html
http://www.cinegearpro.com/kamerar-...cus-shoulder-support-rig-system-sale-243.html

I don't want to mess with a mattebox (I rather buy a variable ND filter like Heliopan), so maybe getting the basis version + counterweight would be a good option, what do you think?

I think I would prefer a solution like SmallHD DP4+EVF, but it's a hell of a lot of money here in Europe. So probably I have to settle for something like a Zacuto loupe or a monitor like Ikan or Lilliput 5D. As I'll operate mainly as a one man crew, a monitor has many advantages when I set up a shot etc... I don't know. I have to see the overall budget then I can decide where to cut.
 
I found this rig:
https://vimeo.com/46441717

It's Zacuto Fee-N-G. It's definitely out of my budget range, but I really love its design. Something compact solution like this would be great for me. It's small, low profile (so people doesnt pay to much attention to it when on streets), seems stable enough and while it seems really stable it doesn't semm very heavy.
 
Alright, but I don't want a rig which is so bulky and big. I love the DSLR form factor, it's small, can get into anywhere, people doesn't pay attention to it etc... So I don't want a huge bulky rig....
 
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