Camcorder recommendation for 3000-4000$ budget

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redeemyourself

Member
Hey guys,

I started off video editing back in the day with my trust VX2100E and did a variety of visual effects compositing work (greenscreening, camera tracking etc).

I'm looking to get back into my hobby and explore the realm of HD. I have a 27inch iMac for editing purposes and will be using premiere as my editor of choice. I have a budget of about 3000-4000$ and am looking for a camera that will give me the best image quality for compositing purposes.

Thanks!
 
Well the 150 is a pretty darn good camera all around and for compositing its pretty good. It's not as forgiving as the 4:2:2 cameras but it's not bad. If you know how to light and have your elements together well then you should do fine. I just did a 7 minute composite all on greenscreen. If you want to view it let me know and I'll send you a link.

I think for 2800 it's a great camera and no CMOS wobble and skew so that helps things. You might also be able to get by with a GH2 and that would cut your cost to 1500 with the 14-140 lens.

You could also capture directly to a computer and see if you can get better compression and hence better results..... Overall the computer will be fine too but raw horsepower of a mac pro would be a bit faster...


Other than that you'll be good to go.... I"m not as familiar with cams on the Sony and Canon side but you might even be able to consider the HMC40 but it's not as good in low light and it doesn't have a manual lens option, just servo.
 
HMC170 will also set you back about 6K or more... I do agree though that the 100 mb 4:2:2 makes it a lot easier to key and a lot more forgiving.... I don't ever miss my HVX though.... the cost of the media and the limited record times were a drag.
 
my friend has been trying to convince me to get something on the lines of a DSLR such as the Canon 5D Mark II+lcd viewer+lens as a recording rig.

with a budget of 3000-4000$ and seeking the best hd image possible, should I buy a DSLR rig or a hd camcorder such as the HMC150? I've been reading that some of these DSLRs can produce videos that are as good as high end hd cams.

This makes me all the more confused. Please help!
 
Don't forget that your sound, in my opinion, is more important than the video. So you will want a good mic. I am very pleased with my Sennheiser ME66.
 
anything to add about hdslrs vs hd cams?
redeemyourself said:
my friend has been trying to convince me to get something on the lines of a DSLR such as the Canon 5D Mark II+lcd viewer+lens as a recording rig.

with a budget of 3000-4000$ and seeking the best hd image possible, should I buy a DSLR rig or a hd camcorder such as the HMC150? I've been reading that some of these DSLRs can produce videos that are as good as high end hd cams.

This makes me all the more confused. Please help!
Click to expand...
 
redeemyourself said:
I have a budget of about 3000-4000$ and am looking for a camera that will give me the best image quality for compositing purposes.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I haven't keyed with a 5Dm2 -- but I did run a few key tests with the 7D. The HDSLR keying wasn't as bad as keying DV footage -- and that's the best I can say about it. I know nothing about your "Mac" -- but I can tell you that keying HMC150 footage ("AVCCAM") on an Intel i7 system using the new Adobe Ultra Key in Premiere Pro CS5 is a dream. The keys are as clean as anything I've seen from Keylight, you can key and edit in real time (no rendering), and export isn't too far off from real time.

This decision, between a pro video camera and an HDSLR really relates to your objectives. The HMC150 (or HMC40 or HMC80) does things easily that would be a pain and/or a disaster with a 5Dm2. And. the 5Dm2 (with quality lenses -- the lenses are the most important thing) does things the HMC150 can't.

You need to research, research, and research. If your friend is telling you the 5Dm2 is the answer for everything -- he's wrong. If a camcorder salesman is telling you the HMC150 is the answer for everything -- he's wrong. Your decision should be based on your objectives.

The short answer is -- if keying is your objective, and you're stuck in the budget you specified, the HMC150 isn't a bad choice, and the 5Dm2 (with quality lenses -- the lenses are the most important thing) is a more difficult choice.
 
Ok so I should list my objectives for what I want in a camera to better help you guys:

1) green/blue screen footage (4:2:2 as important as people say?)
2) 3d camera tracking (handheld shots, but no extreme movements)
3) widescreen film like look should be accomplishable
4) highest quality picture

I will have to probably use HDMI recording on the HMC150 in order to get 4:2:2, correct? Wouldn't it be better to go for the NX5U or HMX170? Or does the memory for the HMX170 cost far too much?
 
Yes, you would need an external recorder to get 4:2:2 out of the 150, however, as many have stated, the AVCHD coming from the 150 can produce great keys assuming the lighting is set up the way it should be. It will definitely key a heck of a lot better than a VX2100 shooting DV. DVCPro HD from the HPX170 is great, but for a hobbyist I'd save your money and use the 150's cheaper AVCHD on SD media. The NX5u is a good camera, though a little more expensive, but also has 4:2:0 AVCHD just like the HMC. Even the more expensive XDCam EX cameras record in 4:2:0, so don't let that number be a burden to you.

As far as DSLRs go, IMO, they most typically suited to productions where a cinema camera would be used, where you have time to light, swap lenses, and have shorter takes. They usually take a little bit longer to set up as far as white balance, DoF selection, focus, etc. due to the nature of a larger chip, not to mention audio requires a workaround or dual system in most situations, but produce wonderful images in the right hands.

The best advice I can give you is to try a bunch of different cameras and see what you like before spending thousands on a new rig. To be honest, coming from a DV camera like the VX2100, you'll be blown away with a modern tapeless HD video camera like the HMCs, NX5, or HPX170.
 
http://photocinenews.com/2010/05/24/green-is-the-new-black-blue-canon-hdslr-green-screen-shooting/

this article raves about the canon mark ii being ace at greenscreening. I keep thinking to myself that audio isn't the biggest concern, and for the purpose of visual effects tests the short time limit for recording may not be that bad.

my question is that for keying purposes, which does better the hmc150 or the canon 5d mark II?

also how difficult will it be to get audio recording going with the dslr?
 
any additions guys? haha sorry for the restlesness but i just wanna buy something quick that lets me get perfect footage for visual effects tests... i want DOF but i also want the run and gun aspect of a camcorder... I really want everything to be tapeless. Help me out guys. I just wanna start compositing already and buy the equipement. I got upto 4000$ to spend so i have a hefty budget, just no advice and guidance in terms of equipement.
 
Given the issues I read about, I wonder if using a DSLR in "run and gun" situations is a very good idea. Seems they're more suited to production scenarios.
 
I own a 5D Mark II and a HMC 150. I will turn to my HMC any day for most video production. I use my 5D for low light and getting good b-roll inside of buildings. It takes me twice as much time to setup the 5D then my HMC
for a typical video shoot. I use a separate recording device on the 5D and sync up the audio in post which takes time as well. For green screen I find the 5D keys better then the HMC in my experience. For most video
production I would choose the HMC. For shallow DOF and a cinema feel I go with the 5D.



www.hdstockshooter.com
 
How about an HMC and a GH2? I own both and can tell you that I'm extremely happy with this combo. Not so much for shooting multicam, but more for having the right cam for the right shot.
 
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