Camcorder ND vs Glass ND Filters for use with 35mm Adapters

J

jmoney

Member
Built-in camcorder ND filters or glass ND filters for use with a 35mm adapters? Which is better to use, or are they the same? I read somewhere that it's better to have the glass ND "in front" of the 35mm adapter rather then behind it. Is this true?

I'm using an HMC150 with a Redrock M2e (w/microX). I'm looking into Tiffen or B+W screw on filters for my Nikon lenses, but if the camcorder ND will do just about the same thing, then I'll save a few bucks and just use lens hoods.

Thanks in advance,

JMoney
 
To some extent you will get slightly different results with each choice. Different example: I know if I'm using my adapter, and I close the camera's iris, colors and light come in differently then if I were to instead flip one of the ND filters on. I'm guessing the same could possibly be said for your situation. The best thing to do is just try it out. If anything buy an ND filter from some camera shop and use it, if you discover that it's unnecessary and the camera's ND filters provide you with the same results, or better results, return the filter to the store and get your money back. It's perfectly honest, as you discovered you really don't need it and it was an unnecessary purchase. Or you may find in some situations you like using both.
 
If you use an external ND, you can open-up the (external) lens and get greater DOF -- assuming you have enough light of course.
 
You could open the camera more but now your DOF is going to be super tight as well. The trade-offs are hard to compare.
 
i think the best advantage with an external ND is when you go with a Graduating ND, which is 1/2 ND and 1/2 clear...spin it any way you like for the image you're going for. an internal OR a full external ND cannot do this. say you like the foreground, but the sky is blowing out at the best possible exposure...a Grad ND will serve you better. not always, but with many levels that Grad filters come in, you have options, just by spinning the filter. the internal and external kinds of full ND filters will "darken" (for lack of a better word) your entire image. try the graduating kind. may work well for you.
 
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Agreed, graduated ND's are quite quite useful and should be first on your list of things to buy. Might also wanna try out a polarizer....works wonders for skies sometimes.
 
Polas, grads and the like are "money for nothing, chick's for free" (OK, just dated myself on the Dire Straits reference) for anyone using a lens. Onboard ND's to me are a last resort when you don't have a mattebox and filters to use. The biggest single reason is that with external filters/shading you're cutting non-image forming light where you should be...before it gets to your optics. Our adapter with its flip represents an added number of optics meaning you'll get best results where light is being managed externally out front. Your cameras will come and go, but a good set of filters will last a lot, lot longer whether you're talking still lenses or cinema.
 
Recent tests trying to track down the issues involved in IR and far Red contamination issues on many modern cameras ( esp the EX-1) led me to discover some interesting things about many external ND filters. Often they are not designed to cover the far red reaches of the spectrum. In the old film days this was irrelevant as the film stock was not sensitive to those wavelengths. Newer video cameras are however.

My own tests have shown that many commonly used "high quality" ND filters (Tiffen, Schneider, Format, etc) will leave you with red contamination in some black fabrics. Often you can see this with the naked eye. On the other hand I have noticed that most internal video ND filters do cover the entire spectrum and do not result in red contamination. Apparently camera manufacturers were hipper to this issue than most filter manufacturers. This is one reason to prefer internal filtration.

In general this question has be argued many times on this forum. Dennis is a proponent of keeping the extra light out of the adapter and as a manufacturer of adapters he no doubt has good reasons. Others of us ( including me) prefer the ease of using the internal filters and don't like to put any more glass than neccessary in front of the lens since that can lead to other problems including reflections and flares.. I've also heard some claim the quality of internal filters may not be good enough for HD work these days.

Draw your own conclusions, but either way will give you generally decent results. The working method of your shoot is also important.

Lenny Levy
 
I use filters in my matte box, for many of the reasons already stated. One other reason I like to use ND before the adapter is that I have no clue what amount of light it takes to start coming up with funky effects on the Ground Glass....no matter how you explain it, reference it, or define it, that ground glass isn't a piece of film, it isn't a sensor, and it sure isn't equal to the human eye....treat it as if it were delicate and you'll end up happy.
 
hey pmark23 - the internal will let you open up lens for dof as well . whats your point? both will give you the same dof.
 
I think another good reason for avoiding ND in the camera is that closing the iris(on camera) and using external ND instead would be a better situation in terms of having a wide depth of field in the camera itself so that the ground glass is in focus.....in other words don't open up the cameras iris all the way and start applying ND anywhere....the iris on the camera should always be stopped down a little so that the GG is all in focus.
 
What about a too bright picture on the ground glass. Doesn't it influence the picture quality? Something like "shineover" or over saturated?
 
I have used both and frankly the only difference I have seen is that the internals take a lot less time to change. Originally I only used my matte box filters but I got lazy and started using the internals and found them to be in most cases just as good. I bring both but 90% of the time i use the internals.


for ND grads you still have to use the mattebox
 
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