Call Canon about 5D 24p firmware update

Sorry guys, wasn't trying to sideline the thread. Recommendations are good, I'm going to call them because they will most likely be put on future cameras. I'm also going to tell them about the 5D section here on dvxuser so hopefully they will stop by.
 
ydgmdlu said:
But the 500D is a different camera, so your point is...?
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My point is that any argument being made with regard to hardware limitations in correlation with lower fps resulting in worsened rolling shutter artifacts is not valid because the 500D shoots at 20fps and it has the same DIGICIV processor unit. If they're prepared to drop it as low as 20fps then, why not 24fps now?

They can put 24p in the 5DmkII, but they'd rather you pay $1700 for it instead of getting it as a free firmware update.
I might be acting a bit presumptuous here, so if these allegations are proven wrong before the 7D is released, then that's fine, I eagerly await being proven wrong here.

I'm likely going to double dip anyway because the 7D has a lot of other features that the 5D doesn't have that aren't relative to video. After shooting around with both of them, there's a possibility I could sell the 5DmkII because the 7D may just be an all-around better fit for me and my needs.
 
slimchrisp said:
So by that logic Canon would rather have a customer buy a camera that costs $1000 less, just because it's the newer model? I just bought my 5D a few months back, and that was after searching for a while because it was out of stock everywhere.
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You missed the point of my argument. There are some people who not only believe that the release of the 7D means that the 24p update is coming; they think that it's coming very soon, like before the 7D ships. I'm saying that even if Canon has a working 24p firmware, then they have no good business reason for releasing it so soon. Even if they receive an overwhelming number of calls asking for it, they're still better off waiting until at least a month or two after delivering the 7D. It's not about selling customers in general a cheaper camera because it's a newer model; it's about getting existing customers to make an additional purchase because of a "must-have" feature on the newer model. And the fact that the new model is much cheaper actually strengthens my argument, because it means that current 5D owners don't feel so bad about making the additional purchase.

See, remaining ambiguous or mum about the matter is really beneficial to Canon. They wouldn't lie and say they'll never release the update if they might ultimately release it. That would be shooting themselves in the foot. But by not making an official statement, they can play off of the fears and frustrations of customers in order to encourage them to buy the new product. And furthermore, the possibility of the update is another form of bait for the older product. A 5D with the possibility of 24p is still far more attractive than a 5D with no possibility of 24p. And Canon can play the baiting game indefinitely. Maybe they'll wait a few more months, and in that time, plenty of hopeful 5D owners will lose faith and double-dip for the 7D. It's a clever case of corporate "passive aggressiveness." To me, it's an ingenious business plan.

Canon has clearly shown that they are not going to give new features away for free unless there's some clear business reason to do so. One can easily see now that the manual controls update was a carefully calculated move. Hudson's analysis of the preceding firmware release indicates that 1) Canon deliberately DISABLED manual controls in video mode, and 2) Canon had been sitting on the update for months before biting the bullet on it. Isn't the fact that Canon waiting NINE MONTHS before enabling manual controls a bit strange? Nine months is half of their 18-month product release/refresh cycle. Nine months is plenty of time for supply to become readily available again. When the update was announced, Kholi here bought himself a unit the next day (or thereabouts); no problem finding stock at all.

The manual controls update was not a case of Canon being nice and listening to its customers. It was Canon trying to create the impression that it's a nice company that listens. Releasing the one update was a big PR win, and they can rest on those laurels forever (as far as the 5D goes). But it also was a way of bringing into the fold the many videographers who had been sitting on the fence because of the lack of manual controls (which, let's face it, are more important and attractive than 24p for professional videography use), as well as those who had been steered away from the 5D because of the GH1.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason why Canon hasn't released the 24p update (and may never release it) was because they were trying to pave the way for the 7D. How long has the 7D been rumored? According Engadget, speculation for the 7D began before the 5D Mark II was released. I feel like Canon's implicitly saying, "You can have the manual controls for now, but if you want 24p as well, then you're going to have to get the new model."

Now answer me this: If implementing 24p on the 5D had no significant technical complications, and if it would be in Canon's best business interest, then why hasn't Canon released the update already? They could've done it with the manual controls firmware; they could've done it along with the 7D announcement; they could've done in the three months between the two announcements. Make sense of that for me, please.

And again, I'm not saying, "Don't make the call." Please do; it can't hurt. But I am saying, "Don't get your hopes up." If someone says, as the original poster did, that Canon is "willing to listen," it shouldn't be taken as "good news" or a reason for excitement or renewed faith. No one should be defending Canon here.
 
Digigenic said:
My point is that any argument being made with regard to hardware limitations in correlation with lower fps resulting in worsened rolling shutter artifacts is not valid because the 500D shoots at 20fps and it has the same DIGICIV processor unit. If they're prepared to drop it as low as 20fps then, why not 24fps now?
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For the 500D, why didn't Canon replicate the 1080p30 video mode from the 5D if the hardware had the capability? It would've made Canon's product even more attractive. Or why not do 720p24, especially if the main competitor is Nikon's D90 or D5000, and if Canon already knew of the demand for 24p (after Vincent Laforet's solicitations)?

They can put 24p in the 5DmkII, but they'd rather you pay $1700 for it instead of getting it as a free firmware update.
I might be acting a bit presumptuous here, so if these allegations are proven wrong before the 7D is released, then that's fine, I eagerly await being proven wrong here.

I'm likely going to double dip anyway because the 7D has a lot of other features that the 5D doesn't have that aren't relative to video. After shooting around with both of them, there's a possibility I could sell the 5DmkII because the 7D may just be an all-around better fit for me and my needs.
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Thank you for having good sense!
 
ydgmdlu said:
I'm saying that even if Canon has a working 24p firmware, then they have no good business reason for releasing it so soon.
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So the option to buy a full framed camera that has the major 7D video bells and whistles for $1000 more is not a good business reason?

Why exactly would Canon not want to say, "Ok you can have the 7D for about $1700, buuuuuutttttt, for only $1000 more you can have the 5Dmkii that is also full framed, and then you can put some of our expensive a$$ L series lenses on it to really flex the full framed sweetness." I hate to break it to you, but the market segment composed of people who buy a $2700 camera and then turn around and buy a $1700 camera to supplement or replace the first one is a very small minority.

If it's possible through a firmware update, the option makes perfect sense to me. It's not just about the camera in this case, it's about the glass as well. For example, there is a sweet 85 1.8 for just under $400. It's sharp, great bokeh, I love it. But have you seen the beastly 85 1.2? Just under 2K for one lens, and it is SWEEEEEET. Someone opts for the cropped 7D over the 5Dmkii just for a few video features, and you gotta think they're less likely to pick up some of the L series lenses. But the 5Dmkii goes hand in hand with those lenses. Then you're talking real money in Canon's pocket.

The camera is just the gateway drug. :Drogar-Smoke(DBG):
 
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ccastro said:
You can't use L-series lenses with the 7d?
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Sure you can. I'm just saying, the image you get from L glass on a full framed slr is money.

The thing is, it's all a moot point if Canon can't upgrade via firmware.

For now, my big hope is that Hudson continues on and makes some headway.
 
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ChipG said:
I'd even bet the rumored 24p 5Dii that was supposedly seen on Iron Man II was actually a 7D.
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I don't buy that. The people on that set would have seen that there's other changes in that camera too. What I've read, it was identical to 5D except it had 24p.
 
I'm gonna go waaaaaaay out on a limb here.

Just curious, would the 7D firmware install on the 5DMKII? Probably also way too early but has anyone even tried this?
 
The 7D is almost completely different than the 5D. It has dual Digic IV processors, and a different sized sensor. You wont be able to flash it like the old Digital Rebel hack.
 
Call canon 1-800-828-4040

Call canon 1-800-828-4040

It would be real nice to get this thread back on track. There's a 7D forum now to go talk about the 7D.

This thread is to structure the calls to canon (which is the best way to actuate firmware updates for the 5D mkii) and for those pro-active, F*Kin' AWESOME people who have tried to actively make a difference to then post in their experience with the call and the rep's response.

Thanks.

The US number is 1-800-828-4040

Please post in the numbers for outside the US as you find them.
 
Maybe Hudson can analyze the 7d firmware and see how they implemented the frame rates and carry that over to the 5d.

I will call Canon too. I'm pretty fond of my 5dmkii and would like to have 24p even if there is more jello since there are some post solutions for it that time-wise and quality-wise might be better than doing 30p to 24p conversions.

Best,
Andy
 
Andy Olson said:
Maybe Hudson can analyze the 7d firmware and see how they implemented the frame rates and carry that over to the 5d.
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Yeah, I said one thing but this was more along the lines of what I was thinking. Hopefully he'll learn something from going over the 7D firmware. My chips are definitely on Hudson rather than Canon.
 
According to a post I've read elsewhere from Hudson, the first priority will be to try and get the magic lantern hack on the 7D. After that, he'll then take a closer look at how the 7D's sensor information is written/processed by the Dual Digic IVs to see if he can maybe (four fingers crossed) bring the 24/25p over to the 5DmkII.
 
Community effort

Community effort

booggerg2 said:
Why waste your time calling? Even if every reader of this thread called, it would still amnt to a tiny amount.. I wouldn't bother..
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If we had all thought that way, Manual control would probably have never been released. Customers huge demand was a key factor.

People is calling not only from this forum, but from many others, and are not tiny ammount.

You can join an add your ".02", or just "waste" time "only" speaking and trying to find arguments of why not to call. Speaking is always easier (well, this time calling is VERY easy indeed). It's up to you.

Lot of users are calling, and telling very good experiences from just spending 5 minutes on the phone with Canon.

Remember, Canon released manual control "by Popular Demand"... So the decision is yours.

- Take a look at:
http://5dmark2.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/i-called-canon/

If we act as a community, we get results sooner or later:

eos5dmarkii_01.jpg

eos5dmarkii_02.jpg

eos5dmarkii_03c_01.gif

eos5dmarkii_03c_02.gif
 
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