cadence pulldown error

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Getting "broken vfr/cadence pulldown" error on capture. Here's the config:
1.5ghz PowerBook G4, 2gb ram, LaCie 250gb fw800 drives, FCPHD, OS10.3.3, QT 6.5.1
shooting with DVX-100a at 24pA, playing back from Sony DSR-11, capturing in FCP HD with advanced pulldown removal pre-set makes it crash.
Apple didn't have much insight... wondering if anyone here is having this problem and can help??? We're mid-project and it seems that the only option is to un-install and go back to FCP 4.1.1...
Insights anyone??
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

First question would be, did it remove the pulldown before you upgraded to HD?

If you're not sure then going back to 4.1.1 might not help. One other thing you could do is capture the footage without removing the pulldown, and then open up the footage with Cinema Tools (you'll have to do a little reading here) which can remove the pulldown after it is captured. Then bring the created clips into your FCP Project file and edit at 23.98

Hope you find out what will work.

Remember that if you decide to downgrade, that FCP will not read the FCP HD project file, so you may want to export and EDL file and XML file of your current project. Especially if you set your clips already for a batch capture, so that you don't have to reset all of this info.
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

Have you repaired permissions on the main drive???? If not do it. FCP is extremely picky if the permissions are not repaired, that will usually fix little problems such as this one.
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

I was going crazy myself with this same error. It seems that the problem was only happening with the "capture now" feature.

If I simply logged my clips as your supposed to do anyway, it was/is fine. I'm still trying to figure out why I updated to HD anyway, not like I have an HD cam or VTR.

I can't capture anything in 24PA with capture now, when I try it either does the cadence thing or crashes completely.

I even got a new crash screen that I've never seen before, the "BLACK SCREEN OF DEATH" which I though was unique to the windows crowd. Had to hold the power button for about 6 seconds to force a power off.

Other than that, Kyle has always been right when helping me out, so fixing permissions just might fix your problem.
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

Black Screen..huh...I recieved something like that on my iBook when I was on Jaguar a year ago; what Operating System are you using right now? I am going to look into this Cadence thing...interesting...Let me know if the repairing of permissions fixes anything. Try running it twice. Run it, restart your computer and run it again...

Applications>Utilites>Disk Utility

Please keep me updated.
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

I am in bed on my laptop and tomorrow I will get off my ass and sit down and look through some FCP prefs and see if there is a way we can rid you of this problem. I think it may have something to do with dropped frames...? Maybe not, I am on other sites reading other peoples similar problems. I am going to see what I can learn and I will share it here with you soon. :)
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

Ya, the black screen thing was a window about 80% of the screen size with the power button symbol in the background with instructions on how to force a power off. It's the only time I've ever seen it, I'm on 10.3.3.

As I said, it's no problem as long as I actually log the clips rather than capture now.
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

I used to get that on Jaguar like I said before. It was the exact same thing...I am still looking around for you and it looks as though most of the time it is a possible processor speed issue. When you capture now and your computer tries to remove the pulldown from what I understand it somehow uses more processing power. I am a bit confused but I guess when you log clips it uses less because the clips are usually shorter.

When you log longer clips (not using capture now) does the audio track seem to get off timecode as the clip goes on? Basically does the sound match the video? ??? ??? ??? Weird issue...
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

I had a similar problem when capturing...for some reason my deck (a little Canon camera) has a problem with the cadence. I was only able to capture with my DVX (this sucks big time). It looks as if there are more drawbacks to shooting in the Advanced mode.
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

well I spoke way to soon. I'm now having issues capturing even when logging my clips. I had only done small tests before today.

I can't seem to capture any of my clips that are over about 1 minute long.

This is such a bummer, the thing about processor speed could be true. I'm only on a 17" 1.33 PB with 1.5GB of RAM, BUT: my disk system has high enough sustained read/write speeds to do 720P HD, just shy of the 180 needed for 1080.

I wonder if the problem is being caused by my monitor, I'm pushing a 23" Cinema HD display with my PB? Is it possible that it is eating enough resources that it's causing this?

I'm buying a G5 very soon, kind of waiting for WWDC to see if dual 3's come out....

Not even sure what to do about for right now? I'm going to try to get over to a buddies house with a G5 to see if I encounter the same issues.

Thanks for taking the time to try and help.
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

Try it on your friends G5 and see if you get the same issues...I bet you don't. Let me know what happens!
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

O.K. I'm doing more and more testing over here today.

I've found that I can indeed capture these longer clips. Sometimes it captures just fine, sometimes it gives the error. Now there is NO ryme or reason as to the "cause".

So, now I'm going to remove the HD display to see if the problem persists.

I'll be back later tonight after testing on the G5
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

O.K. the more and more I read I think I've found a common denominator. I've now spoken with 5 other people with the same exact problem.  The things that we all have in common are
POWERBOOKS
FCPHD
AND FW800 drives  this could be a FW issue, I've spoken to others with powerbooks and FCPHD, that use standard FW400 drives and have absolutely no problems capturing 24PA.

So, I plan on doing more testing very soon.

HOWEVER... I have found a fix that works perfectly and maybee someone like Kyle can shed some light on the "WHY" it works

I've found that I can capture as normal footage, i.e. the standard NTSC preset and it will capture just fine.

Then once captured you can go under TOOLS/Remove advanced pulldown

So that worked perfectly, all clips captured to hard drive.

but on the remove advanced pulldown, not all the files were converted, it gave a message saying not all of them could be.

These clips are all from the same clip on an UNCUT reel, that is I shot a continuous hour on a helicopter ride in Kauai, so I know that all the settings remained exactly the same.

So, there is still no rock solid way of doing this.

ANNOYING
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

(reposted from 2pop)

I have this exact same problem and have:

17" 1GHz Powerbook with 1 GB RAM, OS X 10.3
DVX-100
FCP4 HD
2 FW 400 drives (250 GB and 300 GB)

I've been having lots of problems with the HD upgrade to FCP4. I used to be able to capture using a Canon GL-1 as my deck after shooting in 24PA on the DVX-100, but I started getting cadence errors and bad audio.

Even using the DVX-100 to capture with advanced pulldown removal gives me occasional cadence errors (and all the clips are at least 2 minutes long).

By following the advice of people here, my work-around was to capture in 29.97 fps and use Cinema Tools to remove the advanced pulldown. That solution works 100% of the time.

I also tried capturing 29.97 fps and using the Tools > Remove Advanced Pulldown feature from within FCP4, and while it does work for some clips, there are usually always a couple clips it cannot process (that Cinema Tools can then handle).

Also: I deleted prefs, tried capturing without any external drives or firewire devices and still got the same errors.

Apple needs to fix this...
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

SWIFTEST: YOU THE MAN!

Cinema Tools..... I used it quite a bit today to test Swiftest's procedure.

WORKS PERFECTLY and 100% of the time.

Can anyone shed some light on how to do it a little quicker in Cinema Tools? I have been opening one clip at a time and using the "conform" button. Gets tedious when you have several hundred clips to do.

I saw something about "database" but have no idea what I'm doing.

Any help?
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

toddmcm, I used the File > Batch Reverse Telecine ... option which does entire directories at once.

(I'm fairly new at Cinema Tools, so feel free to correct/explain better anyone)
Here are the step by step instructions:

1) After capturing in 29.97 in FCP, I start up Cinema Tools (version 2.2) without quitting FCP
2) I cancel the database dialogue
3) Select File > Batch Reverse Telecine ...
4) Navigate to your capture scratch directory
5) You'll find directories of your projects here, navigate to the correct project directory
6) Click on one of the files which hasn't been converted from 29.97. Click "Choose"
7) A new dialogue comes up "Automated Batch Reverse Advanced 2:3:3:2". The defaults should be fine: I have selected conform to "23.98", File: "Same (faster)", and I enable "check for cadence discontinuities" just to be safe. Click OK.
8) Cinema Tools will batch reverse telecine all capture scratch files in that directory and place them into two new folders: reversed and skipped. The ones in reversed were successfully converted and any that Cinema Tools skipped are put into skipped. (If you did the advanced pulldown removal in FCP successfully, then these will be moved into Skipped). There's a text log file created here as well.
9) Repeat from step 3 for each capture scratch drive that you've set up to capture.
10) Return to FCP where all the converted footage will be offline. Just reconnect them.

A tip: If you select a clip in the log bin and control-click (or right click) and select Item Properties > Format, you can see where the clip lives on the disk in the "Source" row.

Hope that helps!
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

SWEET

That saves A HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME

BUT! and that's a big BUT...

Can anyone explain the difference between "reverse telecine" and "conform"

I'm reading the help files, but it's a bit confusing to a rookie like myself.

Thanks again
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

Todd-
Sorry I couldn't help you more on this situation. I hope all goes well for you using Cinema Tools..Hopefully Apple comes out with an update to fix this shitty bug..I will ask some guys at my FCP Chicago Users Group to see if they have had similar problems... :)
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

Kyle,

No worries bro...... I've learned more in this past week about video than I've learned in the past two years of tinkering around.
 
Re: cadence pulldown error

Hi...we're having the same problem on an older G4, dual 500ghz, capturing to external Lacie hard drives direct from the panasonic.

Regarding Cinema Tools...is it possible to NOT have it put the files into these two folders? Just more of a media management issue, IMHO.
 
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